Angstrom


Status
Not open for further replies.

Pickle

Mega GP Mania
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
5,516
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Website
Visit site
As suggested by the latest blog Pandora can angstrom. In fact the beagleboard is shown to be running it. Everyone should take a look over at the angstrom site. They have a very nice package selection.
Some nice ones that I found:
quake3
mythtv

Although I dont think all of the packages have been ported the key I believe is to look for armv7a,( they even have a dosbox version done, stinkers!)
I wonder although have optimized the packages are.

I hope we can see some pandora hw running this very soon :)
 

Gilrad

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
231
scim - No results.

This is not so good. Does anybody know if Angstrom has an equivelant to SCIM input? Cause if not, then there will be little to no foreign language support.

Alternately, how is the ubuntu prospects coming along? Would it be reasonable to see some sort of debian-based Pandora distribution that can take advantage of the library size as far along as the Angstrom distro? If Angstrom can't make my pandora a portable edictionary, then it's useless to me.
 

mali

-
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
6,543
Age
46
Location
EU
Website
Visit site
Pickle said:
As suggested by the latest blog Pandora can angstrom. In fact the beagleboard is shown to be running it. Everyone should take a look over at the angstrom site. They have a very nice package selection.
Some nice ones that I found:
quake3
mythtv

Although I dont think all of the packages have been ported the key I believe is to look for armv7a,( they even have a dosbox version done, stinkers!)
I wonder although have optimized the packages are.

I hope we can see some pandora hw running this very soon :)



Quake :wub:
This is so exciting :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

.Gogeta§§J4BR.

that brazilian guy =`]
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
476
Age
34
Location
São Paulo - SP - Brasil
Website
robertocr.com
Pardon my linux ignorance, but what difference does it make to have X or Y linux running on a portable like this?
Do apps from some linux don't run on other linux?

All I know is they have to be re-compiled having the different processor architecture in mind (a x86 executable won't run in a arm processor, but once you have the source code, you can make a port).

What difference does different linux builds mean in this situation?
the most important applications are being ported with the Pandora in mind, so why bother choosing between different linux builds and not getting the smallest/fastest available one?
 

atiflz

GP2X Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
90
Website
twitter.com
.Gogeta§§J4BR. said:
Pardon my linux ignorance, but what difference does it make to have X or Y linux running on a portable like this?
Do apps from some linux don't run on other linux?

All I know is they have to be re-compiled having the different processor architecture in mind (a x86 executable won't run in a arm processor, but once you have the source code, you can make a port).

What difference does different linux builds mean in this situation?
the most important applications are being ported with the Pandora in mind, so why bother choosing between different linux builds and not getting the smallest/fastest available one?
Many linux distros have their package archives, where you can just pick the software you like and have it automatically downloaded and installed. So that you don't have to look for it on the Internet. Using a distro with a good archive supposedly enables you access to that good sw repository.

Other than that, distros have different design decisions and different goals in mind. Some of them are eye candy, some of them are lightweight while others are highly custumizable. So you need to consider your needs when choosing your distro.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TaG

Fau-fau-faulty software.
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
1,727
Location
England
Website
Visit site
ati said:
.Gogeta§§J4BR. said:
...
Do apps from some linux don't run on other linux?
...
Many linux distros have their package archives, where you can just pick the software you like and have it automatically downloaded and installed. So that you don't have to look for it on the Internet. Using a distro with a good archive supposedly enables you access to that good sw repository.
My understanding of it is this:

The latest decision appears to be Angstrom on NAND with the possibility of Xubuntu on SD.

Angstrom will use PXML. This avoids the need for repositories and writing to the NAND for every small change. This means the software available for NAND is whatever somebody packages using PXML, or you compile yourself from source. So the Angstrom repository is not less relevant.

Xubuntu would then presumably work more like a normal distro with package management and is not restricted by the 256mb limit or frequent writing to NAND.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

WizardStan

Mega GP Mania
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
16,733
Gilrad said:
Alternately, how is the ubuntu prospects coming along? Would it be reasonable to see some sort of debian-based Pandora distribution that can take advantage of the library size as far along as the Angstrom distro? If Angstrom can't make my pandora a portable edictionary, then it's useless to me.
This is something else I don't think people understand. Even if Ubuntu were installed, it wouldn't give you immediate access to the entire library in the Ubuntu repositories. If you want to use an app, it still needs to be compiled for the Pandora, and added to the repository, which means someone had to do some work to get it working, in which case it's not really any different from taking the same code, compiling it, and sticking it on any repository; it doesn't have to be the Debian database. Heck, making it web based, with download and click-to-install packages wouldn't be so bad either. In fact, that's already a given. Any package manager that would allow you to install directly off the net to the Pandora could easily be written as a web client to browse this online repository, download, and install with a single click. There is nothing magical about Debian in this regard.
The reason the Debian system is so populous is because it is popular: so many people use it on so many different distros, a large percentage of which being programmers, that it's only a matter of time before one of them says "this app is cool, I should compile it for system X and add it to the repository." And since the x86 is currently the most popular processor, that's going to be the most populous repository of them all.
With only 4000 consoles at the moment, the odds that two or more people want a certain title are greatly diminished, and that one of them has the skill set to recompile and add to the repository smaller still. You're not likely to find any of the more obscure apps unless you port them yourself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pickle

Mega GP Mania
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
5,516
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Website
Visit site
I think some of you are missing the point Angstrom is aimed at ARM devices like pandora. Most of the packages appear to be ported to armv7a. Think of this as debian recompiled for the pandora.
 

adamorjames

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
255
Age
31
Location
Tx
Website
aojweb.110mb.com
Last edited by a moderator:

.Gogeta§§J4BR.

that brazilian guy =`]
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
476
Age
34
Location
São Paulo - SP - Brasil
Website
robertocr.com
I see, thank you for your replies!

So it looks like angstrom was chosen because it is very optimized for arm, while it doesn't really care if the distro has a lot of apps on the repository, the PXML system will make a pandora-only repository more handy, making it easy for people to download the newest snes emulator, quake port, mplayer, etc, right? (as if a very easy-to-use automated-install Pandora File Archive was available for use on your pc or pandora itself)
I'd say boot time is crucial, and if angstrom is especially crafted for arm processors, I hope this decision is really as good as it sounds :)
 

Gilrad

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
231
WizardStan said:
Gilrad said:
Alternately, how is the ubuntu prospects coming along? Would it be reasonable to see some sort of debian-based Pandora distribution that can take advantage of the library size as far along as the Angstrom distro? If Angstrom can't make my pandora a portable edictionary, then it's useless to me.
This is something else I don't think people understand. Even if Ubuntu were installed, it wouldn't give you immediate access to the entire library in the Ubuntu repositories. If you want to use an app, it still needs to be compiled for the Pandora, and added to the repository, which means someone had to do some work to get it working, in which case it's not really any different from taking the same code, compiling it, and sticking it on any repository; it doesn't have to be the Debian database. Heck, making it web based, with download and click-to-install packages wouldn't be so bad either. In fact, that's already a given. Any package manager that would allow you to install directly off the net to the Pandora could easily be written as a web client to browse this online repository, download, and install with a single click. There is nothing magical about Debian in this regard.
The reason the Debian system is so populous is because it is popular: so many people use it on so many different distros, a large percentage of which being programmers, that it's only a matter of time before one of them says "this app is cool, I should compile it for system X and add it to the repository." And since the x86 is currently the most popular processor, that's going to be the most populous repository of them all.
With only 4000 consoles at the moment, the odds that two or more people want a certain title are greatly diminished, and that one of them has the skill set to recompile and add to the repository smaller still. You're not likely to find any of the more obscure apps unless you port them yourself.


You're missing the point.

Ubuntu already HAS lots of stuff already ported to ARM. In particular, SCIM is available for Ubuntu on ARM right here and now. Do you expect somebody to get to porting niche things like cross-language dictionaries, foreign language input systems, or flash card programs the moment the Pandora gets out the door? Some of that stuff can become pretty big projects. I believe SCIM is at least somewhat tied in with OpenOffice... How long do you think it would take somebody who is doing this out of his spare time to port the entirety of OpenOffice? Or even a portion of it?

I'm sure most of the devs will be preoccupied working with more general-use things, like emulators, homebrew ports, tech demos, or their favorite image editor to worry much about something that maybe only I would benefit from, especially if it turns into a pretty large project.

So I don't care if Ubuntu is not optimized for ARM like Angstrom is. I don't care if the dev team is building something specifically for the Pandora from the ground up just for us. If it doesn't have the features I need, its useless to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ShyGuy

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
129
Niche software can easily be compiled from source, especially if there's an ARM Ubuntu package out there. In most cases this just means compiling under the right build environment...not that big a deal. Some more complicated software will require a bit more tweaking.

But of course, in the end, you can always just install Ubuntu. Apparently Xubuntu will be quite easy to enable. Hooray for freedom :D
 

noisome

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
262
Gilrad said:
If it doesn't have the features I need, its useless to me.
Then you wouldn't mind selling this useless piece of crap to me for $25 would ya then?

If you bought one already, then you're SOL and get over it. If you haven't bought one, quit whining and go buy something else. If you're capable of porting programs yourself, quit whining and port it yourself.

Basically, the final answer is "quit whining." Why would you buy something if you don't even know if it suits your needs. Did you buy it to suit your wants? If so then why whine about your "needs"? Go buy a hot dog and ramen noodles and I'll slap them on the Pandora if its features you "need." Damnit man, you're wasting money and people's time.

Anyway, Angstrom is badass. I had it on my Zaurus when I use to own one, although they really quit supporting the Collie. With 200mhz it still loaded fast, so I can't wait to see it on this new processor. Love the devs! Keep up the excellent work as I can't wait to see the file product. Quake, Doom, Duke Nukem multiplayer. SCID, Kismet, and stupid other little programs from the Angstrom repo will make the first few days interesting!

Noisome
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AireTamStorm

Unix Addict
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
971
Age
36
Website
Visit site
Gilrad said:
If it doesn't have the features I need, its useless to me.
Worry not, it is my top priority after POND. There will be a SCIM / Anthy port whether it is already in the tree or I have to do it. I've been a big proponent of SCIM in the keyboard layout threads, I'll make it happen one way or another.

I haven't chewed on someone for a while, so here goes:
Noisome said:
If you bought one already, then you're SOL and get over it. If you haven't bought one, quit whining and go buy something else. If you're capable of porting programs yourself, quit whining and port it yourself.
That is a terrible attitude to take when the difference is in software, especially when it is -easily- fixable. You have got to be kidding, pal.

Noisome said:
Basically, the final answer is "quit whining." Why would you buy something if you don't even know if it suits your needs. Did you buy it to suit your wants? If so then why whine about your "needs"? Go buy a hot dog and ramen noodles and I'll slap them on the Pandora if its features you "need." Damnit man, you're wasting money and people's time.
It runs Linux, and Linux is capable of doing what he wants. /Which/ Linux package set could make it more or less difficult. It is a valid concern, not whining. You think this kind of response is helpful or productive? Sounds like you're complaining alot more than he is.

The Pandora catering to only the emulator / etc demographic will not bode well for its potential install base. This is a multifunction device, with a full blown OS powering it. It should be capable of catering everones needs rather just that which is advertised. The more people that buy it, the better it is for everyone. Why drive people away when they voice legitimate concerns?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

noisome

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
262
AireTamStorm said:
Why drive people away when they voice legitimate concerns?
What concern? Complaints about NEEDING software when noone knows what it is going to be default anyway? Give me a break. Voice a legitimate concern, not speculate what could or could not happen if you don't get the module that makes a Playstation controller vibrate. Gosh, wait until November when you get the darn thing before complaining about what's there and what's not.

Drive away? I hope I run over before they drive away. My terrible attitude is purposefully rude. None know what is to come and yet they complain as if its a right that I shouldn't complain against.

Noisome
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sebt3

homebrew player (P. & C.)
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
4,885
Age
42
Location
France
Website
sebt3.openpandora.org
Noisome said:
What concern? Complaints about NEEDING software when noone knows what it is going to be default anyway? Give me a break. Voice a legitimate concern, not speculate what could or could not happen if you don't get the module that makes a Playstation controller vibrate. Gosh, wait until November when you get the darn thing before complaining about what's there and what's not.

Drive away? I hope I run over before they drive away. My terrible attitude is purposefully rude. None know what is to come and yet they complain as if its a right that I shouldn't complain against.

Noisome
Useless rudeness is still rudeness.
Did you pre order one ? Listen, the product are comming in time. And the software will be there. No matter how within a few months. Amstrong repository is large. But the debian arm (comming with patches :)) one is large too. So you'll have your damn sotware in time for chrismass.

By the way, will you DIE if you dont get that software ???
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top