Making the pandora successor "green"?


Ziz

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Greating folk,

You all know, fossil oil is a finite ressource. Although nearly any product of our daily live is made out of it.

But there are some researches in alternatives. Some uses oil from plants, which compete with plants making food for the growing world population. Others use the waste of plants we eat, like hay.

However, I don't want to start a discussion, whether this is good or not (especially the fact about the competition with food plants). Fact is: Someday the fossil oil is exhausted or at least very very expensive, so these solution are without alternative and we have to deal with it, that we need fields for making plastic in the future, too.

The alternatives are more expensive at the moment. But ED said, that he will produce the Pandora 2 covers in europa (even germany? cannot remember). That will surely be more expensive, too. So maybe using regenerative material for the case wouldn't hurt that much.

But instead you can advertise with being quite green and fair like the "fair mouse" (https://www.nager-it.de/en) did.

Using recycled material would be an alternative idea, too. ;)

You could e.g. advertise this with "I was a broken C64 once" or similar. :p

What do you think?

Edit: ED, if you are really interested, the fair mouse uses this manufactor as it seems: http://www.tecnaro.de/deutsch/avsk.htm More details you get in this document: https://www.nager-it.de/static/pdf/lieferkette.pdf
 
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comradekingu

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10/10, fully agree. Recycled plastic or made in a sustainable way makes sense.

By virtue of not subscribing to "planned obsolescence" the device, like the pandora, is green to begin with.

Btw, i see it now, successor case made from hemp, stuck in customs.
 

Hồng Thất Công

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P2 should run on nuclear, solar, or a wind power :)

Just make P2 nice and strong.  Mr. Green is the least I'm concerned with.  We're to small to impact anything.
 
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ekianjo

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Fact is: Someday the fossil oil is exhausted or at least very very expensive
We will be long dead before the petrol is exhausted. And the gas resources will easily last a few hundred years. The green movement is just about putting taxes on stuff and not about providing better/cheaper solutions. Theres no current replacement for fossil fuels that's cheap, scalable, efficient and making economic sense. Everyone who says otherwise is a quack. :p
 

Binky

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This needs careful statistical consideration.

Its easy to say "use recyclable materials" - but these things are unlikely to be thrown away - rather lie around in a box of treasured electronics for a generation - recycling is far less worthwhile when a product's life is measured in years, instead of days

I wouldn't be surprised if using a LiPoly battery was the biggest environmental hazard - there's not much we can do about that.

But as I said, lets not waste time on suppositions.
 

Mr_Loon

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Though making something like P2 in an eco friendly / ethical manner is a desirable goal I doubt it would be possible to achieve this on a 'genuine' level, if it could be done then it might attract some good press or additional support but my suspicion is that either goal is totally impractical. Sure it could be manufactured / populated in Germany but good luck sourcing components that are not made in China and are made from 'sustainable' materials.

However where green concerns would have no impact or even a positive impact on the financial viability of the project then they should certainly be considered, I'm thinking of things like minimal packaging etc.
 

Klumpen

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I surely would gather up to another 75-100€ on top of what I have to save for the successor anyway

for more eco-friendly or just even more not-China/Taiwan production, IF it makes sense and is not just for a label,

because I am not quite rich.

and:

+1 for minimal packaging
 
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Hồng Thất Công

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- 1.  I love fancy and nice, and strong, good quality packaging (something like ekianjo's box would be nice).  Do you see retro gaming stuff they sell on ebay?  Even though the system is old, but with perfect-shape box, the price is much more.  So I would like to have P-Successor box to maintain its shape when I give it to my grand, or great grand kids even though he system itself may be dead by then  :)
 
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comradekingu

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This needs careful statistical consideration.

Its easy to say "use recyclable materials" - but these things are unlikely to be thrown away - rather lie around in a box of treasured electronics for a generation - recycling is far less worthwhile when a product's life is measured in years, instead of days

I wouldn't be surprised if using a LiPoly battery was the biggest environmental hazard - there's not much we can do about that.

But as I said, lets not waste time on suppositions.
So in worrying about making the most out of its lifetime, somehow lessens the need for recycling? A physical object is very real, shelving it doesn't make it less so. Thinking about it in a context as arbitrary as a generation is to the problem at hand, doesn't make said problem go away.

Allowing for ease of disassembly and marking the plastic parts with what grade recycle they are makes sense imo. I dont know that this isnt (done to) the case already, but its a good idea for little effort.

Some of the objects with the longest lifespan are made from recyclable materials, so the question isn't to do with the frequency at which they are recycled, but rather a cost for return proposition. Seeing as things like metal is expensive enough to recycle for the cost of buying it scrap alone.

Even though plastic is relatively cheap, you could flip the coin and say that is one argument against making it from scratch and then scrapping it for each iteration, and worse so, make it out of unsustainable goods.

I'm not going to feed the obvious eki-troll above here, but whatever one may or may not think, the prospect of something done right makes sense to many, which is an economical incentive to do it, even though it may add additional labour and material costs.

The trade-off at the other end is determined by what we want, and I, for one, really want it to be non-hazardous, made from recycled goods in/, whatever extra coming from sustainable sources, and what comes out of it not being just junk.

This pattern of thought is already present in making it hackable and not making it defunct by design.
 
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ghostpatch

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I don't think carbon fiber comes in "green". You really want to trade in an extremly stong case for a plastic usually used for bags and packaging? The advantage of bioplastic lies more in the throw away market because it quickly dismantles.

the bigger problem ist that we buy too much junk that breaks or gets thrown away. There are certainly better ways to save the planet
 

FBnil

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Well, we already have the "not assembled by children".... I think that is important.

>>OK. How about cases milled from bamboo flooring materials then?
Are you CRAZY???? What if my Panda wants to eat the bamboo and chokes on the electronics? ;)

Yes, bamboo is durable... http://www.calibamboo.com/whybamboo.html

The high silica content in bamboo fibers means the material can not be digested by termites.

  • Higher tensile strength than many alloys of steel
  • Higher compressive strength than many mixtures of concrete
  • Higher strength-to-weight ratio than graphite
... but I still worry about my Panda... what if one wants to eat the other?
 
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MarTinazzI

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I want a steel or bamboo case for my pandy rebirth. Anyone know where I can pay for made one?

MarTinazzI, rafael​
 

Binky

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Recycling plastic bags works because a huge amount of polyethene is used in the manufacture of plastic bags every year- and the energy and oil saved by not making more of the stuff is likewise huge.

The environmental impact of a few thousand cases' worth of plastic over a few years is tiny in comparison.

I agree that sustainability is good - but the only way to make a noticeable difference is to target large groups and quantities
 

vcoleiro1

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I'd go with Aluminium like the Apple line up, recyclable, and provides a premium finish to a premium product that is Pandora.  

Spot price of Amluminium is 78 cents a pound - so its a cheap material, it's cost would be in milling the cases , however, you would save by not needing to produce $60,000 molds like you would need for a plastic case .  
 
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ArchiMark

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Fact is: Someday the fossil oil is exhausted or at least very very expensive
We will be long dead before the petrol is exhausted. And the gas resources will easily last a few hundred years. The green movement is just about putting taxes on stuff and not about providing better/cheaper solutions. Theres no current replacement for fossil fuels that's cheap, scalable, efficient and making economic sense. Everyone who says otherwise is a quack. :p
+1

Well said!...
 
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