Nvidia Tegra, The Next Generation Of Arm-based Socs


timofonic

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What about this upcoming SoC by NVIDIA? Is OMAP doomed?

QUOTE

* The Tegra line will be all-in-one, integrated systems on a chip, containing an 800MHz ARM CPU, GeForce GPU, image processor, HD video processor, and controllers for all other aspects of core operations (memory, USB ports, communication) -- in a package about the size of a dime.
* The range will come in two varieties to start -- the Tegra 600 and the Tegra 650. Both chips can run games like Quake 3 with full filters and anti-aliasing at rates of more than 40 FPS, and will support 1080p HDMI, WSXGA+ LCD or CRT, and NTSC/PAL TV outs.
* Products will be built atop Windows CE or Windows Mobile, though the company isn't ruling out other operating systems, like Android.
* The chipset is 1/10th the size of Intel's Atom and is ultra-low power. A single charge can allow the user to run audio for 130 hours or HD video for up to 30 hours.
* The first Tegra systems will be handhelds or small laptops with screens ranging in size from 4-inches to 12-inches, with QWERTY or touchscreen interfaces, as well as WiFi and possibly 3G connectivity.
* Starting prices for the initial devices will range from $199 to $249.
* The demo we saw of the NVIDIA UI is an actual interface that the company is seeding to developers. It takes advantage of the Tegra's GPU and is quite fast (videos of the UI running on the APX 2500 below).
* NVIDIA is giving both an SDK for that UI and hardware development kit to partners, and encouraging them to utilize the custom chipset of the Tegra for user interface design and functionality.
* The chipmaker expects to see media players, MIDs, and GPS units using the chipset by the end of 2008, with ODM smartphones in Q1 2009.



http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra_csx.html
http://gizmodo.com/5012159/nvidia-tegra-al...urs-hd-playback
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/02/nvidia-...phone-mid-game/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra
 

PoisonedV

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Jesus christ, shutup about this shit. It's not related.

IS THE CONSOLE A PC KILLER!?!!?
Is the toaster a toaster OVEN killer?!!?!
Are aluminum cans a 21 oz plastic bottle killer?!!?
It's not hard to realize the advantages of OMAP. If you are so stupid you can't do your own research, here:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=42411

I'm fine with repetitive askings of 'HOW MANY USBS DOES IT HAVE LOL" but this is from lazy to just plain ignorant.
 
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Prophet

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There is ALWAYS more powerful technology around the corner. Dwelling on every new chipset that pops up in regards to the Pandora is a fool's game. It takes a long time and lots of work to put a device together, the chipset is only one part of the whole.

And no, OMAP isn't "doomed" (and by extension the Pandora).

Timo - are you going to troll this board every time a manufacturer introduces new mobile SOC's and ask if the OMAP/Pandora is "doomed"? Do you not realize how absurd that is, and how combative it sounds?
 

Kings

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While we are on the topic of 'SoC that would delay the Pandora for a year or just another refresh of an old ARM processor' 3DLabs has a media chip coming out that should be interesting. The DMS-02 with comparable specs to the GP2X except for the addition of 3D and an array of 24 floating point elements.

http://www.3dlabs.com/content/mediaProcessor.asp

Nothing to see here, lets all go back to waiting for more Pandora news.
 

crazedover

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I was under the impression that the OMAP3530 was still more advanced, seeing as how the OMAP2420 is in the same processor family as the Tegra (ARM11). Cortex is the future!
 

nubie

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Consider the source of this hardware. . . nVidia.

Consider Ti. . . a company actually dedicated to letting us mess with its hardware at a low level.

Considering the DSP of the OMAP, I think that it has a lot of power waiting to be tapped, and the dev units are clocking to 900mhz, so that is something right there.

Even if this hardware is good, nVidia will stifle it with horrible software support and closed-source.

The Razr had an integrated Geforce GPU, but you couldn't play 3D games on it (think ~PSP level graphics), could you?

I don't mind nVidia, but I don't think they are prepared to go open source and allow platforms that are open. Even on the PC they refuse to make proper drivers that can correctly interface with output devices. And since the 8 series they have changed all of their registers so that 3rd party progs (like powerstrip) can't fix the problem either. Not to mention that their drivers have the capability to work properly, and due to not allowing you to even see the setting that would fix major graphical errors, they don't work.

So, nVidia not good. Ti good.

Ha, the chipset can play 130 hours on a single charge! Imagine what it will do connected to a battery as well! Seriously, anyone who understands the English language can see when the marketing BS department is slinging again.
 

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Hell, no one would buy a PC if they applied the logic of "wait a better one is coming out soon." We'd be sitting here twiddling our thumbs until the next big thing comes out only to hear the competitor is making a better one that is coming out in six months. I think we need to drop it. Don't like what the Pandora has? Go and buy something else. All these topics do is annoy people. I don't even know the ins and outs of the Pandora, but constantly hearing people question its capability is annoying.

nubie said:
Ha, the chipset can play 130 hours on a single charge! Imagine what it will do connected to a battery as well! Seriously, anyone who understands the English language can see when the marketing BS department is slinging again.
That sounds like a lot of the stores that were advertising dual core processors. Two cores = DOUBLE THE POWER
 
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ldesnogu

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The fact nVidia is pushing an ARM chip is a very good thing. I am not talking about its use for Pandora or comparing it to OMAP35. It's just that we have another strong player fighting against Intel using an ARM chip, and this is a good news for the future of the ARM architecture :)
 

Exophase

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Laurent said:
The fact nVidia is pushing an ARM chip is a very good thing. I am not talking about its use for Pandora or comparing it to OMAP35. It's just that we have another strong player fighting against Intel using an ARM chip, and this is a good news for the future of the ARM architecture :)
And not just pushing it, but directly attacking Atom in their advertising. Too bad it's blatantly false though (10x more powerful, yeah right)

Now if nVidia announced they were using an Cortex-A9 then that'd be really interesting. If such a thing is even really possible. But I can see why companies wouldn't back A8 now.

Unfortunately, a move like this that's trying to compete with Atom when it probably can't at all could also be a bad blow for ARM.
 
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icurafu

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It uses ARM11, less than CortexA8. It uses GoForce, not GeForce. Very different.

All in all, we could end up with a SoC even less than the OMAP 3530 that won't be released until 2008. We won't know until then and it won't matter.

It's interesting, yes. It's exciting, yes. It's also not available on the same timeline. nVidia has already stated that it is aimed for Windows Mobile 7. You don't seem to bold that point. I'm praying they support other OSes because MS just can't compete against some of the funky OSs that Intel MIDs will have.

I'll be looking forwards to this, but remember TI and nVidia see things differently when it comes to Open source and linux. You have to give TI some respect for that and it adds a lot of value to the type of device that Pandora is.
 

Exophase

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icurafu said:
All in all, we could end up with a SoC even less than the OMAP 3530 that won't be released until 2008. We won't know until then and it won't matter.
The point I'd like to stress is that for an open device like Pandora that wants to do a lot of emulation and get a lot of ports of PC apps having strong programmable units is the most important thing, and from what we know the CPU and DSP of OMAP3530 look decently more capable than what Tegra is offering. Don't really know what the graphics will be like, but since I doubt we're going to see a huge number of PSP killing 3D games for Pandora (or for the nVidia SoC for that matter, unless it gets put in a popular enough gaming handheld of course) then I'm not sure it even matters.

I for one am glad we're getting a great CPU (not that I think the GPU will suck)
 
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crazedover

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icurafu said:
It's interesting, yes. It's exciting, yes. It's also not available on the same timeline. nVidia has already stated that it is aimed for Windows Mobile 7. You don't seem to bold that point. I'm praying they support other OSes because MS just can't compete against some of the funky OSs that Intel MIDs will have.
I wouldn't count on them supporting anything other than Windows. D3D Mobile is one of the selling points of the Tegra, only accessible via Windows.
 
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Holokauston

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in 100 years they might have designed a system that runs on brainwaves (that runs in your head with the brain as hardware only upgraded), shouldn't we look in to that before Pandora comes out, that would totally dominate Pandora in every way and could maybe play all games n matter what platform in 6D 10^12311412341 x infinity resolution with a light speed display (FPS is so 2008, picture should change just as fast as light can) even old 2D games would automatically convert to the best 6D game ever.


The point of threads like this are as important as life itself.
 

Chip

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Timo's usual inflammatory BS aside, the Tegra SoC may or may not be a decent general purpose MID platform. Unfortunately, none of the articles provide any actual numbers by which to compare it to other platforms like OMAP and ATOM. This could be because the actual numbers don't stack up against the competition, but more likely it's just because there are probably not any actual physical chips to test yet.

You can't really say "Tegra is teh suxx0r!" or "Tegra is teh winsauce!" without more information.


Oh, and for better or for worse, I'll bet you a dollar this is the chip that the Gizmondo 2 will be built around.
 

icurafu

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lol, or the GP2X F800. Remember the rumour Zodttd started half a year ago. 800MHz CPU in the next console, which could be this or Menlow.

Or more likely, some lame crap from Magiceye with software from digisys.
 

delmarko

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Does it actually say anywhere what screen resolution the Nvidia chip can manage Quake3 at 40 fps.... i'm guessing as this chip is aimed squarely at the smartphone market and there is no mention of anything otherwise this is probably 40 fps at QVGA (ie 320x240) resolution...

Anyway the SGX core inside the OMAP should run Quake 3 at 640x480 resolution at >40fps (and no this is not a guess, although i can't give away too many details).
 

Exophase

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Chip said:
Timo's usual inflammatory BS aside, the Tegra SoC may or may not be a decent general purpose MID platform. Unfortunately, none of the articles provide any actual numbers by which to compare it to other platforms like OMAP and ATOM. This could be because the actual numbers don't stack up against the competition, but more likely it's just because there are probably not any actual physical chips to test yet.

You can't really say "Tegra is teh suxx0r!" or "Tegra is teh winsauce!" without more information.


We know it has an up to 800MHz ARM11 MPCore (single core version of course). It's not hard to stack up how it'll perform running normal applications with that, compared to an Atom of pretty much any clock speed they're out as (OMAP3530 at 600MHz would probably be a closer comparison). And that's what MIDs are about.

Chip said:
Oh, and for better or for worse, I'll bet you a dollar this is the chip that the Gizmondo 2 will be built around.
Bet you five dollars that there won't be a Gizmondo 2.

... but if there is I wouldn't be surprised if you're right.

icurafu said:
lol, or the GP2X F800. Remember the rumour Zodttd started half a year ago. 800MHz CPU in the next console, which could be this or Menlow.
Sounds like a total coincidence, I don't see how GPH is going to get information about nVidia's SoC this far in advance.
 
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ldesnogu

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dmdm said:
Does it actually say anywhere what screen resolution the Nvidia chip can manage Quake3 at 40 fps.... i'm guessing as this chip is aimed squarely at the smartphone market and there is no mention of anything otherwise this is probably 40 fps at QVGA (ie 320x240) resolution...

You are wrong, it's WVGA (ref), probably 800x480.

QUOTE
Anyway the SGX core inside the OMAP should run Quake 3 at 640x480 resolution at >40fps (and no this is not a guess, although i can't give away too many details).

Since you're in the know how does that stand against 40 fps @800x480? :p
 
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