Pal/NTSC general game question???


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Only recently have games on mass offered a 60hz mode to Pal gamers. Before that, in the days of the SNES etc, pal versions used to work at 50hz. Did this mean that the gameplay was 17 (or whatever) % slower or did they use some sort of method to make the speed equal to that of NTSC.......
I used to have MarioKart Pal version for the Snes. If above is correct then the version i used to play is considerably slower than that available in America and such places. I that is correct, when using SNES emu's, i should look for NTSC roms so that the gameplay is faster...... thus combatting slowdown in emulation........
If all that is correct, then surely the emulators (and hopefully yoyo's project soon) will seem much better to Europeans than Americans etc. (going on what we remember the games to be like from past experience)?

Is all this correct? Or am i missing something blatantly obvious?
 
I could be wrong here, but I think 50hz refresh rate is different than 50fps. I think it's how many times the screen refreshes itself, not how many frames per second the actual game is putting out. Even if it's not, the difference between 50fps and 60fps probably isn't discernible by the human eye. Interesting question though. Maybe someone else knows better.
 
I can say I could tell the difference between a game running at 50hz, and one running at 60hz on both the old PS1 and the Dreamcast. The 60hz version did seem a lot smoother. Not sure how this would affect emulation though.

Maybe it has something to do with the game waiting for the vsync before doing something? And this happens faster on 60hz games. I dunno...
 
I know that on most systems the 60Hz version was indeed faster. This was definitely noticable on the Amiga when you switched between PAL and NTSC outputs.

Not sure about other systems though!
 
You're all pretty right, I'll explain it a bit deeper for all of you who want to know more:)

PAL (50 Hz) runs with 25fps
NTSC (60 Hz) runs with 29.97fps (you can basically say 30fps)

So, this will affect the game speed.
A simple example:

Let's take any game.
If you run it in PAL, 25 frames per second are displayed.
If you run it in NTSC, 30 frames per second are displayed.

After ten seconds, PAL displayed a total of 250 frames of the game,
while NTSC displayed a total of 300 frames of the game.
To reach the same total of frames like NTSC, PAL needs another 50 frames
more. Since PAL runs with 25fps (as we know), it needs another 2 seconds...

So: To make the same movement in a game, you need
10 seconds on NTSC
12 seconds on PAL

Apparently, it runs slower on PAL!

This is in fact the case in most games running on the Genesis, SNES other systems / consoles from this aera.
SOME games have been changed by the producing company to run the same speed on PAL as on NTSC (most new games are, like the ones running on GameCube, XBox, PS2, etc.)

So, what happens if you play PAL and NTSC games on an emulator?

If you run the emulator in PAL mode:
- If you run a game, which hasn't been speed fixed for PAL, it runs the same speed whether you play the NTSC or PAL version (in this case slower than in NTSC mode)
- If you run a game, which HAS been speed fixed for PAL, it runs at normal speed if you play the PAL version, but too slow when you have the NTSC version.

If you run the emulator in NTSC mode:
- If you run a game, which hasn't been speed fixed for PAL, it runs the same speed whether you play the NTSC or PAL version (in this case faster than in PAL mode)
- If you run a game, which HAS been speed fixed for PAL, it runs TOO FAST if you play the PAL version, and right speed when you have the NTSC version.

But as most games haven't been fixed, you don't get any difference whether you play the PAL or NTSC version.

Any questions? :)
 
EvilDragon posted on Dec 12 2003 at 01:21 AM said:
Any questions? :)
just a couple! :)

1. Snes9xGP, SnesEmu and Yoyos new snes emu- are they all set in NTSC mode as their default?

2. You said that MOST games from the SNES era have not been fixed- Just wondering if you know of any that were fixed for PAL? Because, if so, you could get the pal version and therefore run it faster than it should do thus conbatting slow emu's.......

You have been very helpful on this issue. Thanks. :)
 
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declaration posted on Dec 12 2003 at 03:40 AM said:
1. Snes9xGP, SnesEmu and Yoyos new snes emu- are they all set in NTSC mode as their default?

2. You said that MOST games from the SNES era have not been fixed- Just wondering if you know of any that were fixed for PAL? Because, if so, you could get the pal version and therefore run it faster than it should do thus conbatting slow emu's.......

You have been very helpful on this issue. Thanks. :)
1. Usually, most emulators run in NTSC mode as a default because this is the speed most games originally ran.

2. I have no idea... I know I stumbled across some, but I don't remember which ones... and I haven't found any information on the net, either.

Be careful though with newer SNES games: They determine the speed of the system and lock out if it's not right!
So some PAL games may NOT work on an emulator running in NTSC mode!
 
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