Project4 - Follow the development of a new game


foxblock

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Hey there foxblock here,


people seem to have liked my Greyout video where I talk about the development and design philosophy.


Now recording the proper video footage, writing the commentary, recording the commentary and cutting everything together nicely take A LOT of time (usually more than one would imagine, too).


I don't know how feasible that is for me to keep up, so tried to come up with an alternative (don't worry the rest of the commentary - levels 4-8 will still happen):


I started working on a new game a few days ago and am planning to stream whenever I continue to do so for a prolonged time.


When I am live, you can watch the stream here: http://www.twitch.tv/foxblock


Usually you will see me coding or sometimes doing some artwork for the game (later on) - cameos could include Greyout and Schizophrenia.


The first "episode" can be watched here: http://www.twitch.tv...ock/b/319956625 (was deleted automatically) but it's rather uninteresting as I get things set-up and not much work done (also there deliberately is no sound).


In the future I will connect my microphone to talk a bit about what I am doing and to answer questions you can post in the stream chat or in the channel "#foxblock-dev" on freenode.IRC (I will join that channel when I am live, so don't wonder why it probably is empty right now). I will also try to upload and update a todo list so you know what to expect and see whether I actually achieve my goal.


I will post here when I am going to broadcast, but if you have a twitch.tv/justin.tv account you can follow me and get a notification when I am live.


This is not supposed to replace the development videos as you probably don't want to spend several hours just watching me misspell C++ keywords. Rather you can keep it in the background while you are working yourself, ask a question every now and then or just peek in from time to time to see how I progress. We will see how it goes I guess...


Windows builds for the game will be uploaded after each session so you can actually try the game for yourself and give me feedback - the source code will not be given out yet (source is available on GitHub).


If you are asking yourself what happened to Greyout, Schizophrenia or Wandor and whether I am still working on those:


Yes, yes and no, currently. Greyout is actually almost done, just needs a few additional levels, but I am currently out of great ideas (and don't want to settle with mediocrity) - if you watch the stream you might catch me designing a level for Greyout. Schizophrenia is being worked on, Ziz is improving sparrow3d (his engine) and planning to rewrite the game in it, I need to design some levels and draw background (so again that also might end up on the Stream). Wandor is on hold for the time being (as I said, consider it dead), it's a far too big project with far too much left to do to tackle right now.


The next broadcast will be: maybe Sun 08.07.12 9PM UTC+1


ToDo List for that session: general ToDo list


Watch the stream: http://www.twitch.tv/foxblock


Watch the past videos: http://www.twitch.tv/foxblock/videos


Download snapshots of the game (W32 and Pandora): Official site


Ask questions: #foxblock-dev on freenode.IRC


Let me know what you think (and if you are a developer, please feel encouraged to do the same, I at least would watch it!).


Cheers,


foxblock
 
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I think it might be great if you held topic-based sessions too, in addition to general ones.


For instance, you could focus sessions on the sound system, savegame management, or a game character and its functions in the game, and then announce these topics in advance. Otherwise, I see people being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of data from this project, with no way to separate the things that interest them from those that don't.


Maybe you can even invite special guests for certain topics, that might be great, too.
 
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I think it might be great if you held topic-based sessions too, in addition to general ones.


For instance, you could focus sessions on the sound system, savegame management, or a game character and its functions in the game, and then announce these topics in advance. Otherwise, I see people being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of data from this project, with no way to separate the things that interest them from those that don't.


Maybe you can even invite special guests for certain topics, that might be great, too.
That's actually a very good idea.


As I am focusing on a specific feature when I am doing such a session anyway, it would not be much of a change.


As I wrote, I am planning on uploading a ToDo list for that particular session in beforehand, so that's kind of like your proposal. I will see that I keep things focused on a specific topic then.

There is no chance of this being HTML5 so it will run on anything?
I think I made my stance on HTML5 gaming clear in the Greyout thread, so, no sorry it's not happening :S (besides, I don't want to look into a whole new environment currently, I want to focus on the actual design on the game, not coding it - it's just there because it has to be).


On the other hand, it will be coded in C and C++, so it will basically run on anything.
 
This will be a bit more difficult to keep up with :p
What do you mean?

I mean, the first video is over two hours. Watching a stream live or finding interesting parts instead of "watching me misspell C++ keywords" would take quite a bit of work on the viewers part, if one does not want to miss anything potentially interesting. Shorter scripted videos convey a message with less work for the viewer. I get the idea of just having you on the background (I for one could give you a quarter screen on my left monitor :) ), but I'm not sure how much I'd actually get out of it since I would be concentrating on other stuff. It's like I sometimes read news on my cellphone while watching TV, if the current episode is sub-par. I get the gist of the episode so I don't miss anything plot-wise, but I can miss details because my mind was in another place.


This is how the idea sounds to me at least without trying it out. I'll probably have you in the background if you happen to mention you're airing in the irc channel, and maybe then I'll have a more informed opinion :p .
 
I think I made my stance on HTML5 gaming clear in the Greyout thread, so, no sorry it's not happening :S (besides, I don't want to look into a whole new environment currently, I want to focus on the actual design on the game, not coding it - it's just there because it has to be).


On the other hand, it will be coded in C and C++, so it will basically run on anything.

Not without major work/recompiling it won't, most software from the last 20 years is in C/C++ and look how little runs on 'everything'.


HTML5 'just works' and is far, far easier to code in than C/C++, people on this thread could follow your work an run it in their browser.


/rant over. :)
 
Not without major work/recompiling it won't, most software from the last 20 years is in C/C++ and look how little runs on 'everything'.


HTML5 'just works' and is far, far easier to code in than C/C++, people on this thread could follow your work an run it in their browser.
It may be the future but it's far too inefficient now, using multiple times more resources than needed to do things, you can't even run that on pandora with usable speed, for example. We are on pandora's development section, why promote something that won't even work on pandora?


/rant over
 
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I'd guess it is a penjin project? ;)
Actually, no it uses sparrow3d, because a C library is better for rapid prototyping (you just use it, don't have to set up much) and various other reasons.

I mean, the first video is over two hours. Watching a stream live or finding interesting parts instead of "watching me misspell C++ keywords" would take quite a bit of work on the viewers part, if one does not want to miss anything potentially interesting. Shorter scripted videos convey a message with less work for the viewer. I get the idea of just having you on the background (I for one could give you a quarter screen on my left monitor :) ), but I'm not sure how much I'd actually get out of it since I would be concentrating on other stuff. It's like I sometimes read news on my cellphone while watching TV, if the current episode is sub-par. I get the gist of the episode so I don't miss anything plot-wise, but I can miss details because my mind was in another place.


This is how the idea sounds to me at least without trying it out. I'll probably have you in the background if you happen to mention you're airing in the irc channel, and maybe then I'll have a more informed opinion :p .
Yes, I think you are right there. It always depends on what you are trying to get out of it. This will be good if you just want to see how development of the game goes or if you have more time and want to take a deeper look. On the other hand, if you are looking for compressed game and coding advice or tips, this probably is not the right thing to watch (and I am probably not the right person to watch, at least when it comes to coding) and as I said this should not be a full replacement for the scripted videos. (Also I am developing anyway, so it's not much of an extra effort to stream it).


It kind of is an experiment, we will see how it goes. I can post timestamps on the different todo items here after I go off air, so people know where to skip to in the video if they are interested in something particular (or other viewers may report on something they found interesting).


I would also like to try Christoph.Krn's idea of bringing guests into the mix at some point...


Also exams are starting in about a month, so we will see how many times I can keep this up.

It may be the future but it's far too inefficient now, using multiple times more resources than needed to do things, you can't even run that on pandora with usable speed, for example. We are on pandora's development section, why promote something that won't even work on pandora?


/rant over
Yep, I agree, the idea behind HTML5 is great, but performance is my main concern and were are "just not there" yet.
 
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Once HTML5 gets rid of the small things that bug it, like have an actually working cross-browser mouse coordinate retrieval system and a working cross-browser key event system that doesn't work differently with repeating keys in every browser and sensible fullscreen mode, it might be a good choice for games. If your games aren't too performance-bound. Otherwise we need a new language too :p


Bottom line is, it's a good start, but needs a lot of work to be on par with desktop games end result wise.
 
Not without major work/recompiling it won't, most software from the last 20 years is in C/C++ and look how little runs on 'everything'.


HTML5 'just works' and is far, far easier to code in than C/C++, people on this thread could follow your work an run it in their browser.
It may be the future but it's far too inefficient now, using multiple times more resources than needed to do things, you can't even run that on pandora with usable speed, for example. We are on pandora's development section, why promote something that won't even work on pandora?


/rant over

I don't think this game will work on the Pandora either? He said W32, windows32?


So most of us can't even try it.


HTML5 would mean 90% of us could follow it, try it, see the source etc.


I see no reason why HTML5 won't eventually be able to work on the Pandora, I'm aware of at least one dev doing some work on getting it working to an acceptable level.
 
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Once HTML5 gets rid of the small things that bug it, like have an actually working cross-browser mouse coordinate retrieval system and a working cross-browser key event system that doesn't work differently with repeating keys in every browser and sensible fullscreen mode, it might be a good choice for games. If your games aren't too performance-bound. Otherwise we need a new language too :p


Bottom line is, it's a good start, but needs a lot of work to be on par with desktop games end result wise.
There are also other things that can prevent HTML5 applications from just working everywhere, such as resolution independence. Even with HTML5 there can still be good reasons for tailoring applications to specific devices, at least for now.


Also, HTML5 performance can be unpredictable rather than just low.


But yeah, other than that, I agree: HTML5 is a great new technology that is worthy of a derailed thread, and sacrificing this one was a very generous move of all of us for as long as it lasted.


/ceremony over
 
I don't think this game will work on the Pandora either? He said W32, windows32?


So most of us can't even try it.


HTML5 would mean 90% of us could follow it, try it, see the source etc.
Ah no, I should elaborate on that, I will release snapshots of the game after each stream, for the viewers to try. Because it will be pre-alpha, mostly debug versions of a game in development, I will only release those for Windows (native 32-bit version, will run on 64bit, too), as that's what I am developing on and the easiest target to build.


The final game will be released for Windows, Linux, the Pandora, GPH devices and maybe Mac OS.


After all this is on the Pandora forum for a reason.


Currently I am unsure whether to release the source code, sure people could look up what I did directly and poke around, but releasing code that early in development feels kind of intrusive and "dirty".
 
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Is there a site where a list of your games can be found?


Is penjin working on the Caanoo too?
 
Currently I am unsure whether to release the source code, sure people could look up what I did directly and poke around, but releasing code that early in development feels kind of intrusive and "dirty".
That would be the first thought, but it's not logical, at least in case the final code will be available in the end anyway. Being able to download the code that was produced during a session can make a lot of sense to those who have watched.


I think just labeling the code as 'dirty snapshot' might be clear enough, but obviously there's no way I can know for sure.


Alternatively, you could try going a step further and making it possible for people to read through all of the code as you edit it (à la EtherPad), and you might have an interesting form of moderated collaborative game development.
 
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Is there a site where a list of your games can be found?


Is penjin working on the Caanoo too?
No, but of the two games I have released in an unfinished state you can find Greyout here and Schizophrenia here.


I don't have much of a track record, but I am trying to improve steadily and getting a bit publicity can help as you people are not only encouraged to ask questions, but also give me advice and tips.


Penjin works on the Caanoo, but I will be using sparrow3d for this project, which also works on the Caanoo. I am planning to make the game scale well and release it for all GPH consoles (including the Caanoo), granted it succeeds (it's just an idea yet, it might turn out to be no fun).

That would be the first thought, but it's not logical, at least in case the final code will be available in the end anyway. Being able to download the code that was produced during a session can make a lot of sense to those who have watched.
It's not logical or rational, but it's how I feel about it, additionally I have not decided on whether I will release the source code.

Alternatively, you could try going a step further and making it possible for people to read through all of the code as you edit it (à la EtherPad), and you might have an interesting form of moderated collaborative game development.
This sounds very interesting, but would need a bit more preparation and coordination with the audience (as well as an actual audience, we don't know how that will turn out) - I will look into it, but I think this would work better when started from scratch and planned properly.


In related news: I won't make the broadcast today, I have too much uni stuff to do right now, please excuse me, but I will prepare some stuff for the first actual session coming soon.
 
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Sounds pretty cool. Downside for me is that every time I try and access Twitch TV on my main PC, Firefox locks up for a few minutes until the "Adobe Flash Plugin Crashed" box comes up. I'll have to watch it via Arora on my other TV PC :)


I will try and follow this when I can. After writing 1 part of "Diary of a Game" for the first "Inside The Box" (web edition), I like that sort of thing. I'd be tempted to do one for Master Class, but as B-ZaR said, there'd be a lot of "dull space" in the stream. Maybe try recording the screens, cutting bits out, and then providing the videos somewhere. That'd take a lot more effort though.


Edit: Just "skimmed" through the vid. I was half expecting some commentary. As it stands, it's quite difficult to sit down and watch; and I didn't really grasp what was going on (though I guess part of that might be due to me skipping through the video)
 
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