Question regarding pre-orders


SleepyChimp

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Hello all,

I am quite interested in the Pyra; it is quite an amazing bit of kit, especially considering its small form factor. I understand how the pre-order stuff work, place down payment to reserve your Pyra, and then pay the remaining amount to have it shipped. The price for the Pyra is quite a lot, now don't get me wrong I'm not going to complain about the price. However, I'm planning on waiting until the Pyra is released and then watch a couple of review videos. My only concern is that at some point, pre-orders are going to close, and I'm not sure if I would be able to purchase the Pyra after that point.

Basically what I'm trying to ask, would I be able to buy the Pyra, not as a pre-order, but as a final product through the website once it's released?

Thanks
 
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WizardStan

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That is EvilDragon's plan, pre-orders to fund the first batch and then start selling them directly from his shop. There may be a second, much shorter, round of pre-orders following this one, but once he reaches around 1500-2000 sold he should have enough funds to start producing stock that can be purchased immediately.
The only reason this might not happen is if interest dies for any reason and ED can't keep selling them; otherwise he's a business man that will keep selling for as long as possible.
 

Neelix

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In theory, if the first batch is big enough to cover all the pre-orders he should be able to start selling them from stock as soon as production is completed. As I understand it the current pre order levels are fairly close to the point where ED will be able to produce 1000 units in the first batch. If it passes that point but he ends up with less than 1000 orders by the time production of the first batch is completed, I expect the remaining units would immediately be available from stock, and a new round of pre-orders would only be necessary once that stock is exhausted. Of course if Pandora sales are anything to go by I doubt it would take long to sell out of that remaining stock.

-Neelix
 

FlapJack

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I showed my Pandora off when I was in Vegas for a Labor Day weekend Party/meetup with friends and they were all impressed. They had no idea what it was. A few people that did programming for the game machines themselves were very interested and said that they'd purchase one. I told them of the upcoming Pyra. It's great to whip it out and use it and see people's interest. It's not a Nintendo DS. It's an actual fully-functional computer.

Yes, now cellphones do a lot more than they used to, but they can't do everything. The Pyra can complete the circle/cycle. Be the all-in-one device that we've always strived for....
 

8bitDev

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Yes, the plan is to get it in ready to buy from stock (similar to how it was with the Pandora) once we got enough money to finance the mass production ourelves :)

If that't the case can you give us some data on estimated amount of pre orders that are required to start actual production.Since there is no crowdfunding campaign on websites such as indiegogo or kickstarter some of the info that people got used to see is missing.

Also i found your pyra/pandora by accidentally finding out about dragonbox store which i somehow found on gamester81 youtube channel.

Pyra/pandora is not well known in most GNU/linux communities that i am following so i would suggest some interviews with few youtubers/podcasters like jupiter broadcasting .

Regards
 
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Caine

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If that't the case can you give us some data on estimated amount of pre orders that are required to start actual production.
He already did: read first post here for info about batch sizes and the first post here for info about when they can be sold from stock.
Pyra/pandora is not well known in most GNU/linux communities that i am following so i would suggest some interviews with few youtubers/podcasters like jupiter broadcasting .

Noah Chelliah already mentioned the Pyra during the Linux Action Show. It would be great if they would also do a full interview with EvilDragon (perhaps once the unit is closer to production). People struggle with the price though, so overall reaction in mass media tends to be rather poor.

<edit>An estimate of the current pre-orders can be tracked here and Levi is doing a great job of summarizing weekly statistics in this thread.</edit>
 
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Grench

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People struggle with the price though, so overall reaction in mass media tends to be rather poor.

I still don't get how people have such an issue with the price though. A simple new smart phone costs more, has no physical keyboard or gaming or multiple USB ports or multiple SD slots or HDMI out or (etc.). Factor in that the Pyra is expected to sell thousands of units not hundreds of thousands (or millions) and has to distribute the development and production costs over a smaller unit set, it feels pretty reasonable. A new Chromebook may be cheaper, but try connecting to a phone network with one or putting it in a pocket.

I think that a lot of it comes down to people making false comparrisons where value isn't given to what are in fact valuable capabilities and features. It's a unique device. There are several devices that overlap features with it, but nothing else includes everything that it has - and a pocketable form factor is a feature.
 

Caine

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Several main issues play a role in that perception.
  • First, while it is understandable that niche products are more expensive (fixed costs spread over less units), many people just don't care at all, i.e. just don't buy a niche device then.
  • Second, jack-of-all-trades devices like the Pandora and Pyra tally up the cost of all their features. If you don't care about all features, then compared to a dedicated device it is very expensive.
  • Third, most people feel like they must own a smartphone anyway. The added benefit of a jack-of-all-trades device is thus significantly decreased as a smartphone can do a lot that the Pyra can do (some better (like calling), most slightly worse but good enough).
  • Fourth, in the mobile market, people are blinded to the cost by subsidized devices. This distorts their feeling of what such a device should cost.
  • Fifth, the uncertainty factor cannot be ignored. We have no idea when the Pyra will ship. Probably beginning of next year, but anything can happen. This community trusts EvilDragon since we regularly talk to him and see how honest and reliable he is. We have seen the service he delivers beyond the call of duty. Most people have not. Pandora has had a turbulent history and some of that rubs off on the Pyra.
  • Sixth. The Pyra is ARM, the GPD Win is x86. Depending on what your killer app and battery-life requirements are, that may play a role.
It is unfortunate, but to the majority of potential buyers these factors combine to the verdict "overpriced". I expect the Pyra to live up to my expectations and thus be worth every buck, but that only invalidates these concerns for me.

Thus less than 1000 have been pre-ordered so far. I expect this to improve once more videos become available and when units start shipping. Hopefully we get some nice videos and pictures out of Gamescom this week.
 

8bitDev

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He already did: read first post here for info about batch sizes and the first post here for info about when they can be sold from stock.


Noah Chelliah already mentioned the Pyra during the Linux Action Show. It would be great if they would also do a full interview with EvilDragon (perhaps once the unit is closer to production). People struggle with the price though, so overall reaction in mass media tends to be rather poor.

<edit>An estimate of the current pre-orders can be tracked here and Levi is doing a great job of summarizing weekly statistics in this thread.</edit>
Thanks for the info,can you provide me link to that jb episode where pandora/pyra was mentioned??



Regards
 

8bitDev

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Several main issues play a role in that perception.
  • First, while it is understandable that niche products are more expensive (fixed costs spread over less units), many people just don't care at all, i.e. just don't buy a niche device then.
  • Second, jack-of-all-trades devices like the Pandora and Pyra tally up the cost of all their features. If you don't care about all features, then compared to a dedicated device it is very expensive.
  • Third, most people feel like they must own a smartphone anyway. The added benefit of a jack-of-all-trades device is thus significantly decreased as a smartphone can do a lot that the Pyra can do (some better (like calling), most slightly worse but good enough).
  • Fourth, in the mobile market, people are blinded to the cost by subsidized devices. This distorts their feeling of what such a device should cost.
  • Fifth, the uncertainty factor cannot be ignored. We have no idea when the Pyra will ship. Probably beginning of next year, but anything can happen. This community trusts EvilDragon since we regularly talk to him and see how honest and reliable he is. We have seen the service he delivers beyond the call of duty. Most people have not. Pandora has had a turbulent history and some of that rubs off on the Pyra.
  • Sixth. The Pyra is ARM, the GPD Win is x86. Depending on what your killer app and battery-life requirements are, that may play a role.
It is unfortunate, but to the majority of potential buyers these factors combine to the verdict "overpriced". I expect the Pyra to live up to my expectations and thus be worth every buck, but that only invalidates these concerns for me.

Thus less than 1000 have been pre-ordered so far. I expect this to improve once more videos become available and when units start shipping. Hopefully we get some nice videos and pictures out of Gamescom this week.

I think that driver optimization will play the main role here,please take a look at quality of PSP games and their specs here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable#Technical_specifications

Comparing to Pyra specs its much slower but take a look at games that PSP can handle.If they(pyra team)is capable to approach at least close to driver compatibility that PSP offered there won't be any problem with the price and customers purchasing the particular product in the future.

Also it is something that can assure long term support by the community!

Now just to be precise i am not speaking about playing particular game(Wipeout Pulse) on PPSSPP,i am referring to having game like this with native hardware rather than running it in emu.

This would get many developers to port their games to the pyra and even more people using it!

Also sadly not so much HD quality videos regarding to particular game on youtube,but you can see really good quality if you are not lazy to run it in PPSSPP .

Regards
 

Caine

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i am referring to having game like this with native hardware rather than running it in emu.
That seems unlikely. The commercial incentive to port games to the Pandora/Pyra is poor.

You have a mixed crowd of retro-gamers, emulation fans and developers with total sales numbers of less than 10.000 units.
Even with the impossible attachment rate of 100% you can barely afford a developer to work full-time for a year on a title and still be able to break-even.

Do not expect a very large offering of Pyra optimized AAA titles. Perhaps a couple of ports from similar devices.
That said, there are some very surprising ports for the Pandora in the repository (such as e.g. Starcraft and Diablo 2).

So, who knows...
 

8bitDev

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That seems unlikely. The commercial incentive to port games to the Pandora/Pyra is poor.

You have a mixed crowd of retro-gamers, emulation fans and developers with total sales numbers of less than 10.000 units.
Even with the impossible attachment rate of 100% you can barely afford a developer to work full-time for a year on a title and still be able to break-even.

Do not expect a very large offering of Pyra optimized AAA titles. Perhaps a couple of ports from similar devices.
That said, there are some very surprising ports for the Pandora in the repository (such as e.g. Starcraft and Diablo 2).

So, who knows...
I will open specific thread regarding to this topic in more details,and this is one of the games that i developed so far.
Sadly rendering on my machine is not the best so i found review of my game made by this youtuber.

Problem that i have at the moment is with the platform to create games for.
My point was if PPSSPP or similar emu can provide better game performance rather than making games in python or lua,let us use PSP toolchain to create games with better performance.There are tons of devices coming out and all of them are missing the point.Having device and putting only emu-s on it is not the point and you will never be capable of reaching to point of Playstation or Nintendo, and that is having your own dev enviroment that you can use to create properly optimized games for the platform.Now PSP is cracked to the native level and toolchain is releaaed on github and project will live on since real PSP hardware is not required at all,but i can't get community around it so we can come up with plan that can provide unique solution.

I see great opportunity in having games that are using the runner and working on that runner separately ,so far runner with best performance that we have is from PSP console,its irony but true.

Its not point that game is triple A,its point to have unique solution and this solution is already working,we have PPSSPP running on odroid,many x86 PC-s but sadly new game selection is not well known,and with only old game selection provided,people that work on the runner will eventually drop the support.Now i know that there is steam available,but that is far from perfect solution !

Any ides on this one???
 
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