Snes Performance: Wiz Vs. Psp


Berserk

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The newer GP2X machines have a stronger reputation for SNES emulation than the PSP, but after some testing of the vaunted Snes9xTYL mecm build on the PSP, I'm left wondering if this is justified or just the result of gamers using slower builds.

Since the Wiz is the fastest GP2X machine for playing SNES, I'm curious to know approximately what percentage of games run at a consistent 60 fps with no frameskipping. A guesstimate will suffice in the event nobody has actually kept track.

I know there are games that run at 60 fps, but then drop to 20 fps in certain situations (this happens on the PSP too). These games don't count toward 60 fps since they're not consistent. Some slowdown during intros and menus are OK, just as long as the gameplay is a rock solid 60 fps.
 

HunterZ

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I've been concentrating more on playing NES/GB/GBC/Genesis games on my Wiz because I've been a little disappointed with SNES emulator performance. It seems that a good number of games slow down a lot when Mode7 and/or transparency effects are used. I suspect that some optimization could be done, but people aren't really actively developing emulators for the Wiz these days from what I've seen.
 

Berserk

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HunterZ said:
I've been concentrating more on playing NES/GB/GBC/Genesis games on my Wiz because I've been a little disappointed with SNES emulator performance. It seems that a good number of games slow down a lot when Mode7 and/or transparency effects are used. I suspect that some optimization could be done, but people aren't really actively developing emulators for the Wiz these days from what I've seen.
Are the slowdown issues really that bad? Is this something that plagues a lot of big name titles?

One of the nice things about mode 7 games is that if you have to lower the fps to 30 with frameskipping, like F-Zero or Mario Kart, the lower fps isn't nearly as noticeable in mode 7 as it is with sidescrollers.
 
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HunterZ

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Well one of the big things that made me want to buy a Wiz was to play Super Metroid. Whenever there are transparency effects on the screen (like the eye scanners that shine a yellow light on you) in that game, the framerate takes a nosedive.

I also noticed the same issue in a couple other games and ended up giving up on SNES emulation on the Wiz for now. I don't expect that it will get better, but maybe faster handhelds will come out by the time I'm ready to upgrade from my Wiz.
 

Berserk

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HunterZ said:
Well one of the big things that made me want to buy a Wiz was to play Super Metroid. Whenever there are transparency effects on the screen (like the eye scanners that shine a yellow light on you) in that game, the framerate takes a nosedive.

I also noticed the same issue in a couple other games and ended up giving up on SNES emulation on the Wiz for now. I don't expect that it will get better, but maybe faster handhelds will come out by the time I'm ready to upgrade from my Wiz.
I beat Super Metroid when it first came out, so I know the scanners you're talking about. On the PSP build I'm using, there's an fps drop as well, but only a 1-3 fps drop at most. The rest of the time it's 60 fps with the occasional drop, like when the level starts rocking back and forth.
 
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Berserk

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Over 200 games tested so far.

- 78% run at 60 fps with 0 frameskipping
- 93% run at full speed with either 0 or 1 frameskip
- 07% are too slow (mostly chip based games)

I haven't logged v-sync settings, but most games do have v-sync enabled.
 

HunterZ

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Berserk said:
HunterZ said:
Well one of the big things that made me want to buy a Wiz was to play Super Metroid. Whenever there are transparency effects on the screen (like the eye scanners that shine a yellow light on you) in that game, the framerate takes a nosedive.

I also noticed the same issue in a couple other games and ended up giving up on SNES emulation on the Wiz for now. I don't expect that it will get better, but maybe faster handhelds will come out by the time I'm ready to upgrade from my Wiz.
I beat Super Metroid when it first came out, so I know the scanners you're talking about. On the PSP build I'm using, there's an fps drop as well, but only a 1-3 fps drop at most. The rest of the time it's 60 fps with the occasional drop, like when the level starts rocking back and forth.
Yeah, it's more like a 20+ FPS drop on the Wiz.
 
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jmetal88

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HunterZ said:
I've been concentrating more on playing NES/GB/GBC/Genesis games on my Wiz because I've been a little disappointed with SNES emulator performance.

The funny thing is, all those systems are pretty awesome on the GP32 even. :lol:

Honestly, I've been a little disappointed in my Wiz. I'm going to hold onto it in hopes that some of the programs get further developed, but so far for my uses (with the exception of SNES), my GP32 performs just as well. A few things are done better on the GP32, like Game Gear and Atari Lynx (I'm sure the Lynx emulator on the Wiz performs better due to the faster clock speed, but with no volume control and the sound sounding all broken up, I can't stand to play it).

The good thing is, I've been playing the heck out of Earthbound on my Wiz. Great game! I have an original cart, too, so I'm thinking about getting a Supaboy once they come out so I can play the same saved game on a handheld as on my SNES.

I'm hoping I can eventually get into some of the homebrew games on the Wiz, 'cause if I can, that would make it more worthwhile regardless of emulator performance.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the Wiz does make a pretty good portable video player. :D
 
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Popcorn Dave

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Yeah, I'm having the same experience with my Caanoo. It does some games better than my Dingoo, but most of the best games like Mario RPG, Star Fox, Kirby Superstar and Super Metroid are still not running very well. Can't have everything I guess. At least the GBA Metroids work well.
 

HunterZ

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jmetal88 said:
HunterZ said:
I've been concentrating more on playing NES/GB/GBC/Genesis games on my Wiz because I've been a little disappointed with SNES emulator performance.

The funny thing is, all those systems are pretty awesome on the GP32 even. :lol:

Honestly, I've been a little disappointed in my Wiz. I'm going to hold onto it in hopes that some of the programs get further developed, but so far for my uses (with the exception of SNES), my GP32 performs just as well. A few things are done better on the GP32, like Game Gear and Atari Lynx (I'm sure the Lynx emulator on the Wiz performs better due to the faster clock speed, but with no volume control and the sound sounding all broken up, I can't stand to play it).

The good thing is, I've been playing the heck out of Earthbound on my Wiz. Great game! I have an original cart, too, so I'm thinking about getting a Supaboy once they come out so I can play the same saved game on a handheld as on my SNES.
Bummer. Is the Caanoo any better, though? The hardware isn't much improved from the Wiz, if at all. I have a feeling that a lot of it comes down to how much time the developers spend on optimizing their ports.

I'm hoping I can eventually get into some of the homebrew games on the Wiz, 'cause if I can, that would make it more worthwhile regardless of emulator performance.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the Wiz does make a pretty good portable video player. :D
I haven't checked out any homebrew games because none have really caught my interest. I have tried a few native ports of open-source games/projects, but only Ur-Quan Masters held my attention for very long (and I've already put that down for now).

Popcorn Dave said:
Yeah, I'm having the same experience with my Caanoo. It does some games better than my Dingoo, but most of the best games like Mario RPG, Star Fox, Kirby Superstar and Super Metroid are still not running very well. Can't have everything I guess. At least the GBA Metroids work well.
I guess that answers my Caanoo question. Good to hear that GBA emulation works well, although I haven't bothered with that since I still have my GBA SP with a flash cart :) I debating whether I should go back to my GBA for FF6, or play either the SNES or GBA version on my Wiz instead.
 
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jlenoconel

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HunterZ said:
jmetal88 said:
HunterZ said:
I've been concentrating more on playing NES/GB/GBC/Genesis games on my Wiz because I've been a little disappointed with SNES emulator performance.

The funny thing is, all those systems are pretty awesome on the GP32 even. :lol:

Honestly, I've been a little disappointed in my Wiz. I'm going to hold onto it in hopes that some of the programs get further developed, but so far for my uses (with the exception of SNES), my GP32 performs just as well. A few things are done better on the GP32, like Game Gear and Atari Lynx (I'm sure the Lynx emulator on the Wiz performs better due to the faster clock speed, but with no volume control and the sound sounding all broken up, I can't stand to play it).

The good thing is, I've been playing the heck out of Earthbound on my Wiz. Great game! I have an original cart, too, so I'm thinking about getting a Supaboy once they come out so I can play the same saved game on a handheld as on my SNES.
Bummer. Is the Caanoo any better, though? The hardware isn't much improved from the Wiz, if at all. I have a feeling that a lot of it comes down to how much time the developers spend on optimizing their ports.

I'm hoping I can eventually get into some of the homebrew games on the Wiz, 'cause if I can, that would make it more worthwhile regardless of emulator performance.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the Wiz does make a pretty good portable video player. :D
I haven't checked out any homebrew games because none have really caught my interest. I have tried a few native ports of open-source games/projects, but only Ur-Quan Masters held my attention for very long (and I've already put that down for now).

Popcorn Dave said:
Yeah, I'm having the same experience with my Caanoo. It does some games better than my Dingoo, but most of the best games like Mario RPG, Star Fox, Kirby Superstar and Super Metroid are still not running very well. Can't have everything I guess. At least the GBA Metroids work well.
I guess that answers my Caanoo question. Good to hear that GBA emulation works well, although I haven't bothered with that since I still have my GBA SP with a flash cart :) I debating whether I should go back to my GBA for FF6, or play either the SNES or GBA version on my Wiz instead.

GBA emulation isn't that great unfortunately.
 
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Reo

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jlenoconel said:
GBA emulation isn't that great unfortunately.
It's not that bad. gpSP runs most games very well, with the problem games being ones that take advantage of the original GBA hardware.
 
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Berserk

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300+ games tested on the PSP:

- 83% run at 60 fps with 0 frameskipping
- 96% run at full speed with either 0 or 1 frameskip
- 04% are too slow (mostly chip based games)
- Only 10 games wouldn't run at all

The vast majority of AAA titles run full speed, which is more than acceptable. The emulator isn't frustrating, it's stable, and even though not all games run perfect, it gives the impression of a near-finished emulator.

If anyone has the time, it would be interesting to see how the Wiz stacks up.
 

geise69

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Berserk said:
300+ games tested on the PSP:

- 83% run at 60 fps with 0 frameskipping
- 96% run at full speed with either 0 or 1 frameskip
- 04% are too slow (mostly chip based games)
- Only 10 games wouldn't run at all

The vast majority of AAA titles run full speed, which is more than acceptable. The emulator isn't frustrating, it's stable, and even though not all games run perfect, it gives the impression of a near-finished emulator.

If anyone has the time, it would be interesting to see how the Wiz stacks up.
Not too sure where you're getting these percentages from. From what I have tested between the Wiz and PSP, the Wiz is way ahead in terms of speed. Almost every game OC'd to 760 mhz on the Wiz runs better than the PSP using 333mhz and PSP Accelerated +Accurate. No speed hacks were used in any of the games I tested on Wiz or PSP. However my PSP is the Phat version so maybe the lite and 3000 models gain a bit of speedup with the extra ram?
 
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Berserk

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geise69 said:
Not too sure where you're getting these percentages from. From what I have tested between the Wiz and PSP, the Wiz is way ahead in terms of speed. Almost every game OC'd to 760 mhz on the Wiz runs better than the PSP using 333mhz and PSP Accelerated +Accurate. No speed hacks were used in any of the games I tested on Wiz or PSP. However my PSP is the Phat version so maybe the lite and 3000 models gain a bit of speedup with the extra ram?
PSP accel + Accurate isn't necessary for most games as all it does is slow down emulation with little to no benefit. Which emulator are you using? You may also be using a slow emulator. Try s9xTYLmecm 091127 with the following settings as default:

Video Engine: PSP accel + approx soft
Hack Debug Menu - Ignore Palette Writes: On

These settings speed up most games with no side effects, but you'll need to disable one or the other for some games or you'll experience glitches. You can also play around with the other settings if you need more speed, but the other settings tend to glitch more often.

If you get around to testing it, I'd like to know what you think.
 
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Exophase

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So do you have statistics if you don't allow glitches, outside of "most games"? That's a pretty huge caveat. Ignoring mid-frame palette writes is going to produce some incredibly wrong graphics sometimes. How thorough are your tests exactly?
 

Berserk

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Exophase said:
So do you have statistics if you don't allow glitches, outside of "most games"? That's a pretty huge caveat. Ignoring mid-frame palette writes is going to produce some incredibly wrong graphics sometimes. How thorough are your tests exactly?
Good question. You don't have to take my word for it, but the time sample is a few dozen hours over a period of weeks. I've also beaten over a half dozen games so far with no issues. That's not exactly enough time to beat every game, but it's enough to know that you can leave it enabled most of the time without issue. If you spot a glitch disable it like I did. Most games don't need it anyway. However, if you leave it disabled, you'll find yourself back in the menu more often enabling it than if you had just left it on.

For the record, I made concessions with two games to get them to full speed because the glitches were minor. This doesn't change the overall stats I posted, but perhaps I should've been a little more transparent about that.
 
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