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If a default choice is set, which desktop environment the Pyra OS should have ?

Discussion in 'Pyra OS (Debian GNU/Linux)' started by Linux-SWAT, Sep 12, 2016.

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If a default choice is set, which desktop environment the Pyra should have ?

  1. Enlightenment

    6.9%
  2. GNOME2/MATE

    16.9%
  3. GNOME3

    3.1%
  4. KDE/Plasma

    9.2%
  5. LXDE

    22.3%
  6. MiniMenu

    15.4%
  7. TDE

    2.3%
  8. Unity

    3.1%
  9. Xfce

    73.1%
  10. EvilWM

    1.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    I love xfce on my pandora (never used mini menu). I user lxde on my original eeepc 701. They are great on small screens, and familiar to most users.
     
  2. ible

    ible Advanced Guard Tower

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    https://i3wm.org/docs/userguide.html

    @levi
    you find this out when you hit mod+s or mod+w accidentally, and wish you hadn't... :(

    but yes, no one is arguing for i3 to be the default wm. it is also very little inconvenience to do "sudo apt-get install i3", as it is already more inconvenient to update the i3 configs as i like them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
    levi, ClockworkCoder and _jr_ like this.
  3. ClockworkCoder

    ClockworkCoder Chaotic Neutral

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    Fortunately this is something one should only need to do once, as is the case for most suchlike configurations.
     
  4. sqff

    sqff Still Fresh

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    Have you ever opened a piece of gtk2-gui that has no scroll bar but a fixed window size that is bigger than your screen? In such cases you can't hit the [cancel] and [ok] buttons.
    I have; on a netbook with a larger screen and similar resolution.
    I'm glad that it works for you... I'm not enthusiastic though.
    New users will dislike that particular experience if it happens, which it hopefully won't.
     
    Gremblo likes this.
  5. Swordfish II

    Swordfish II Very Active Member

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    Yep i have on the eeepc, and it does suck, a little alt-f4 takes care of it or i can hit the very top of the buttons with the mouse. The pandora has never had those issues as the porters do a great job of scaling the software. Even still that doesn't happen often.
     
    Gremblo likes this.
  6. elvissteinjr

    elvissteinjr Very Active Member

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    Here's a small surprise: A different desktop environment won't save you from applications having too large windows.
    Alt-dragging is a thing when you do come across such a window.

    Fixed windows that are too large at 720p should be rather rare nowadays, though.
     
  7. sqff

    sqff Still Fresh

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    I was thinking about that as well. Some DEs have this concept where the screen shows a part of your desktop and you move that screen like you would in an rts game, like warcraft. Plasma has that. And the pyra has perfect controls for it. Perhaps something can be done with that.
    I am not entierly convinced that alt-dragging is a good solution, it's just a workaround maybe. You are of course totally right that it's the application's fault. But, in my experience (and i might be wrong) this doesn't happen as often with gnome3 as it did with 2. Perhaps because the design principles have evolved and designers & devs do a better job today. I am definitely willing to give anything a try if someone has put some thought into it. But, just picking someone's favourite WM or DE from a totally different context is weird.
     
  8. Silent-Hunter

    Silent-Hunter Advanced Member

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    Try mod+W, that does it for me, by default.
     
    rygD likes this.
  9. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Yes, and I even find that often when I'm in the keyboard settings dialogue in the pandora OS (because I need to reenable some keyboard shortcuts it's omitted to enable during boot). But I just need to hold down the left shoulder button (shift) and the right stick left (left mouse button) and then I can drag the window at will. On my openbox laptop it's alt+left mouse and drag that moves windows around which I think it the standard keyconfig, but on Pandora the left shoulder is more accessible so that has been configured.

    It would be better if that xfce4 dialogue was redone for Pandora, and it's not at all user friendly to have to know this magic incantation to handle big windows, but its something I'd advise any user of small resolution screens and various linux DE's needs to learn, because it's got me out of trouble on plenty of occasions and allows me to test websites at resolutions bigger than this screen by dragging the browser window mostly off screen then dragging it bigger, and repeating that process.

    @Silent-Hunter Thanks, but ible already covered that in much more detail for me.
     
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  10. elvissteinjr

    elvissteinjr Very Active Member

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    Current Xfce versions handle that in the settings manager by plugging the separate dialogs into the manager window which is then scrollable. So it would be somewhat handled if we had a newer build.
     
    levi likes this.
  11. Grench

    Grench Forum Addict!

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    IMHO - minimenu wasn't to my liking.

    On the Pandora screen, the insane accuracy of the pointed resistive stylus/screen combo gave nearly pixel-accurate selection after a bit of practice.

    The people who made the Pandora's PND system were very smart in how they set things up. Depending on what folder you stored the PND file in, the program could be selected from the menu or the menu & a desktop icon. If you like minimenu, just put the programs that you're wanting to have as desktop icons in the right directory and done - still with a full desktop OS in a handheld. I'm assuming a similar setup is in store for the Pyra.

    If you have only used phone screens with fingers or gigantic rubber crayon styluses, you can be forgiven if you think it won't work. Yes, they have done a lot with predictive models to figure out that if you're right handed, your intended selection is offset X% from center of the registered blob contacted by your finger/stylus/salami. They're only as accurate as their algorithm and can be frustrating to use. It's like trying to write small with a crayon. You can go through the motions, but it isn't likely to be legible.

    If you've ever used a Samsung Galaxy Note product's thin active capacitive stylus - that is similar in accuracy to the plastic stylus on the resistive screen Pandora. You can see the point of the stylus - and see the screen around it. It is far more like using a mini pen/pencil and it's inherent accuracy.

    How about this. Take a pencil or pen and a piece of paper. Draw the smallest square that you can that can still be discerned as a square. Now try to touch the center of the square with the pencil/pen tip. Odds are pretty good you were able to.

    But what if I don't want to get out a stylus and point-select on the screen or loose my stylus or...

    Pretty much any plastic tipped object can be used as a stylus.

    Those nubs in the middle of the Pyra are also usable as pointing devices. They are analog nubs. The further you move the nub from center the faster the mouse goes in that direction. Fine movement and fast movement are both available from the same control. This gives VERY accurate selection fairly quickly. No mouse needed.

    If your only experience with small screens is on phones designed for fingers, then you're unlikely to know what a small screen is really capable of.
     
  12. ljones

    ljones Member

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    Well I must admit I don't mind what desktop environment the pyra should use by default just so long as it can be changed. And I aplogise if it is slightly off topic, but I did a while back try running different DEs on a raspberry pi 3 to see how well they would perform. So maybe that gives a very rough idea of how they might be on a pyra? Not sure.

    I chose four: kde plasma, mate, xfce and tde.

    KDE Plasma was the slowest. It was certianly a fight - the raspberry pi 3 just dosen't cut the mustard with regards to kde plasma. Too slow.

    MATE ran relatively well on the pi 3, but it was just a touch too slow. Not as bad as kde, but still. It also seemed have some very nasty screen window resizing/redrawing issues.

    XFCE on the pi 3 worked better than MATE did. But it still seemed to be a little on the slow side but nothing like as bad. No screendraw issues.

    TDE - at least for me - worked best on the pi 3. It was faster than all of the above and again no screen redraw issues. Actually it did pretty well (I'm actually using it right now on a pi 3). The only fly in the ointment - the tde desktop can be a bit buggy.

    Maybe this provides a rough guide to pyra? (Why do I keep wanting to type *pandora* ?!).

    ljones
     
  13. Kippykip

    Kippykip BFG 9000

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    I've experimented with a couple myself.
    Plasma as you said was really slow and plus I didn't really enjoy using it imo.

    I tried cinnamon and it crashes and asks if I want to restart it endlessly. Although turning off GPU rendering in raspi-config did let me run it and warned me it was in software mode. Didn't seem too slow but then performance will suffer on everything else so...
    A shame because I quite like the themes for that one when I played with Ubuntu in a VM.

    XFCE-4 ran butter smooth for me, although I kind of miss typing in the apps menu to search for stuff easily. I had this running on my Pi 3 for a year.

    MATE which is what I use on there now, runs just as fast and I like actually having a "My Computer" (don't crucify me pls). But also kind of miss not being able to easily search in the apps menu.

    Haven't tried any others.
     
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  14. elvissteinjr

    elvissteinjr Very Active Member

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    Use the Whisker menu panel (part of XFCE since 4.12), it's really nice.
     
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  15. Kippykip

    Kippykip BFG 9000

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    Cheers! I'll give it a go
     
  16. Gremblo

    Gremblo Hi, how was your day?

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    I use Ubuntu Mate on my home PC and I use synapse for quickly opening programs!
     
    Kippykip likes this.
  17. ashdjones

    ashdjones o_O

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    XFCE on the Pandora was superswish thanks to the screen DPI and ED's borderline genius nub control scheme with compass point clicks on the right hand side. It worked because the nubs move fast like air hockey, unlike PSP or later 3DS.

    At higher DPI that's going to be stressful. Sadly certain apps like Firefox were half sucky at lower resolution too. As for the desktop, I was leader tester of the Ubuntu thing via chroot and still have the pnd files to boot this. Did that project die? It wasn't swift, but Gnome2 on the Pandora was an obvious upgrade from XFCE, GTK is GTK and you get more stuffs and features. Just wasn't Street Fighter 2 turbo enough at the time.

    My instinct says go for Gnome2 with Android compatibility, like browser and Office apps. However, the amount of bugfixing of the old codebase ie legacy exploits and such is a burden. Especially with mobile phone internet enabled. Sheesh. Some kind of sandboxing need shall you Jedi. Debian chroot virtual machine mashup you do or do not. Intersplice with new PND replacement like Google Chromeos ideas isn't it hmm padawan. (Just thinking aloud)
    --- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2018, Original Post Date: May 16, 2018 ---
    Also, Mate creeps me out like a Terminator 1000 because they made it too similar to Gnome2 but too different, or what's called 'uncanny valley effect'. I would rather use IceWM or something. Don't ask me why, maybe it isn't rational but the small differences are very odd. Hey John... Come to me... Help me john... Sarah Connor shotgun moment kapow. Imposter vibes. So i theorise if it isn't just me, Mate is liable to sink Linux faster than the Titanic and needs to be design changed some more to make it more independant from Gnome2.
     

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