Pandora 2 is Modular


We do want to use the iCP2 as the basis, the back panel would be different though, to make it thicker and allow for the hinge + access to the master/slave pcb/battery.
Too bad, the Pandora 2 is becoming less and less an option for me. First the announcement that it will be just another Android device (I know, no one will keep us from putting another OS on it, but if the manufacturer doesn't encourage it, and doesn't spend a dime on development on this, I highly doubt that something really usefull will come out of it).


And now it will get the crappy key layout of the ICP 2 ?
 
We do want to use the iCP2 as the basis, the back panel would be different though, to make it thicker and allow for the hinge + access to the master/slave pcb/battery.
Too bad, the Pandora 2 is becoming less and less an option for me. First the announcement that it will be just another Android device (I know, no one will keep us from putting another OS on it, but if the manufacturer doesn't encourage it, and doesn't spend a dime on development on this, I highly doubt that something really usefull will come out of it).


And now it will get the crappy key layout of the ICP 2 ?

It was never said that the P2 will be andoid only.... it will come with android out of the box.


Meaning itl most likely have Linux (PND) Android (APK) and on top of those two minimenu that can launch both...
 
By you saing "we", I imply that that doesnt't include ED, so i.e. the person who places the eventual decision on how P2 will look like?

It's pretty much MichaelW that decides on how it looks/is laid out, because he has to work out where everything can go.
 
It was never said that the P2 will be andoid only.... it will come with android out of the box.
I haven't wrote anything else, but there is a difference between having the possibilty of installing a Linux based system, and the manufacturer activly working on it.

Meaning itl most likely have Linux (PND) Android (APK) and on top of those two minimenu that can launch both...
If you can direct me to "official" statements that back this up I stand corrected (except the horrible ICP 2 key layout, which just sucks), otherwise this is just wishfull thinking in the same line as bobs console (aka nD). Launching apks directly out of a new Version of miniMenu would need a Dalvik VM for the Pandora => highly unlikely
 
If the Pandora 2 will be Android/Linux Dualboot, how do they wants to deal whit the Issue whe know from the aktuall Android PND?? : On the Pandora 1, when you use Androidpnd, the SDKart on Slot 2 will be corruptet by Android, and all Data on this card will be deletet, this is the reason, why i switched the 16gb Slot 1 Card to a 32 gb Card so i can put even my PSX Isos and the other Pandora apps on this Card and the Slot 2 Card can be used from Android, the Slot 2 Card is not inportant then..


And i ditnt think they will make more than 2 Slots in the Pandora 2, so this Android for Pandora 2 have to bee better...
 
@thatgui I don't know what is that horrible layout that you are talking about. The official kickstarter page of icontrolpad 2 says that the layout is not decided yet.
 
@thatgui I don't know what is that horrible layout that you are talking about. The official kickstarter page of icontrolpad 2 says that the layout is not decided yet.
Because it's a step backwards regarding the current Pandoras keyboard layout (meaning the physical layout of the keys):


- no Pandora button anymore,


- unused space in the "numbers" row


- wasting space with the two big buttons (why are two "big ones" needed - just for the sake of symetrie ?)


- what about ergonomics - the old physical layout took into account that while operating the gaming controls "normal" keys could be pressed by accident -> gone in the new layout


- ...


Maybe the things that I listed aren't important for the ICP2, but I could not care less about the ICP2.
 
@thatgui I don't know what is that horrible layout that you are talking about. The official kickstarter page of icontrolpad 2 says that the layout is not decided yet.
Because it's a step backwards regarding the current Pandoras keyboard layout (meaning the physical layout of the keys):


- no Pandora button anymore,


- unused space in the "numbers" row


- wasting space with the two big buttons (why are two "big ones" needed - just for the sake of symetrie ?)


- what about ergonomics - the old physical layout took into account that while operating the gaming controls "normal" keys could be pressed by accident -> gone in the new layout


- ...


Maybe the things that I listed aren't important for the ICP2, but I could not care less about the ICP2.

A rather .. frustrating... post, but I'll answer anyway:


Firstly if you don't care about the iCP2 then you don't care about the Pandora2, because the two are intrinsically linked.


Seeing as the layout isn't decided on, how can you know there is no Pandora button? We have a lot more buttons this time so of course there is room for it.


There is no unused space on the number layer, had it not occurred to you that there might be vital PCB parts under that area?


There is no need for the 'triangle' space on the keyboard level like the first pandora, because from the current Pandora we know when using the gaming controls you won't press the keys by accident.
 
Firstly if you don't care about the iCP2 then you don't care about the Pandora2, because the two are intrinsically linked.

Really? I don't care about a phone attachment/standalone controller but I care about a gaming handheld, what is the contradiction exactly? I want iCP2 to succeed but I have no compelling reason to buy one..
 
ED hasn`t let much slip about the P2 yet, but iirc he intends to put official, real Linux on the P2.


Craig has said many a time that android comes with the intended hardware, rather that being part of some kind of populist hit-the-mass-market campaign.


Why can`t one of the big buttons be a pandora button?


Having said that, I am seriously worried about the P2 missing the twin SDXC slots - to the extent that I might just stick with my P1


I think the iCP2 controls could be very good (if the tactile feedback and keymap are right)


I have no objection to android, although I doubt I`d use it much


The bigger screen sounds promising too.


L2/R2 seem like obvious additions to make (if practical)


As long as OPteam don`t make any controversial decisions without getting feedback from the fanbase, what`s not to like about the p2`s foreshadow?
 
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... because the two are intrinsically linked.
Partially, even if the ICP2 is a success (which I honestly hope for you) it probably won't generate enough money to enable you to stem Pandora 2 alone. Leaving out the fact, that the success of the ICP2 will decrease the number of potential Pandora 2 buyers. Remember these endless number of posts ?:


random guy: "Hello there Pandora - users I didn't get the point behind the pandora, but I do not know what to do in my spare time, so why should I buy a Pandora if my smartphone now tells me what a genius move it was tu buy it and how beautiful I am"


pandora board user collective (or short pabusec): "well your phone may be more powerfull, but did you notice how cumbersome it is to play games that weren't ment to be played with touchscreen controls with touchscreen controls"


random guy: "ahh, who cares my phones got more power"


pabusec: "ahh the clever arguments just keep comming"


small leap into the future:


...


pandora board user collective (or short pabusec): "well your phone may be more powerfull, but did you notice how cumbersome it is to play games that weren't ment to be played with touchscreen controls with touchscreen controls"


random guy: "well there was a clever guy who brought a addon to the market that I can pair my phone with that gives me full gaming controls and a "full" keyboard"


pabusec: "if we weren't polite around here, we would say "go and kiss your mothers behind" (who gets the movie citate ?), but as it seems we have to say - where can I buy that ?"

Seeing as the layout isn't decided on, how can you know there is no Pandora button? We have a lot more buttons this time so of course there is room for it.
lots of more buttons that should be spend to get more "standard" keyboard layout compatibility instead of placing the Pandorabutton in a rather ackward place. Also hard the believe that a audience that mainly focuses on a smartpone would care about a button for a device they won't buy anyway.

There is no unused space on the number layer, had it not occurred to you that there might be vital PCB parts under that area?
well, it was enough space on Pandoras board (which sure has a lot more parts on it than the ICP2), so why not assume that there would be enough space ?

There is no need for the 'triangle' space on the keyboard level like the first pandora, because from the current Pandora we know when using the gaming controls you won't press the keys by accident.
can't argue about that - tried to ask you several times, but you (understandably) did not seem to notice. But holding the Pandora in hands right now, does suggest it was usefull to leave the keys out of that particular area
 
ED hasn`t let much slip about the P2 yet, but iirc he intends to put official, real Linux on the P2.


Craig has said many a time that android comes with the intended hardware, rather that being part of some kind of populist hit-the-mass-market campaign.
Having the intend to do something isn't the same as making it real. I did understand that Craig doesn't not force android on "us", but I got the impression that he is fine with Android on the Pandora and does not see the need for anything else on it (in the sense of: "I already have something working good on the Pandora, why should I invest time, money, nerves, hair, etc. on an alternativ)

Why can`t one of the big buttons be a pandora button?
why wouldn't a smaller one be sufficent (making room for more keys if the needlessly big buttons would vanish) ?

Having said that, I am seriously worried about the P2 missing the twin SDXC slots - to the extent that I might just stick with my P1
is that set in stone yet? Well, then: reason number three, why Pandora two isn't for me

As long as OPteam don`t make any controversial decisions without getting feedback from the fanbase, what`s not to like about the p2`s foreshadow?
the things I mentioned ?
 
allow for the hinge + access to the master/slave pcb/battery.
master/slave sounds exiting :)

without the KS working out I just cannot see how we can afford to even consider this modular approach.
Is this implying that you will seriously consider a modular setup if the iCP2 kickstarter pulls off?


Does "this" refer to my diagrams, or the master-slave thing you mentioned?


Am I reading far too much into a simple forum post?
 
As long as OPteam don`t make any controversial decisions without getting feedback from the fanbase, what`s not to like about the p2`s foreshadow?
the things I mentioned ?
I meant final decisions. I doubt any aspects of the P2 have really been decided yet.


The keyboard layout can obviously be changed, real linux is really a software exercise, and the community has made the support for twin SDXC pretty clear.


I can imagine a future where Craig sells Android Pandoras, and ED sells true Linux ones...
 
@thatgui


the ICP2 layout looks very promissing to me. You should wait until its finally out before you give your final judgement.


Pandore2 beeing shipped with Android? thats new to me but I doubt that Android will be the main OS. Like you I want a real Linux and I think the majority thinks the same way (including the devs). So don't worry about that point.
 
p2ab.png



Idea:


Screen is whatever resolution seems suitable/available at the time


Motherboard has up-to-date ARM SOC, TV out, internal display connection, one SDXC slot, audio out, micro USB AB, analogue volume control, power switch, USB host


Pandora weirdness includes hardware specific stuff that should be separate from the main board (e.g. battery handling)


Daughter board has one SDXC slot, audio line in, GPS, DVB/DAB, one USB host socket, solder pads for internal USB host (instead of second battery), accelerometer, microphone, random external connectors on pcb headers


Model B could be available as an upgrade from model A


The daughter board and motherboard could be improved and also made available as upgrades (or fit-it-yourself)


The motherboard could be available on its own, or in a set-top-box case, etc

I think you're onto something there - but I would count on the 'pandora weirdness' to be 1/2 of the base footprint and then each of the batteries to be just a touch lower in capacity - like 2200mAh. Then allow for 1/2 footprint modules to be stacked onto the bottom of it. Each module would be required to have both the male and female 'surface plug' on them so they can be stacked in any order.


I could see the following module types - and a case for ANYTHING that a module can do being LEFT OUT of the main motherboard/unit. Yes, this means a theoretical Pandora with NO SD slots. It may even be possible that the 'Pandora Weirdness' block above is actually just a 'wireless module'.


The leads going through the 'surface plug' would need to include USB 3.0, power, some sort of 'active battery selector' logic, HDMI leads, etc - it would need to be a high density connector. The mating between the unit and the modules would need to be extremely durable.


1. Battery module. Need piles of battery? Add two more 2200mAh half footprint bases to it = 6600mAh. No real limit here - you could stack 11 batteries on the thing and make it 4" thick with a week and a half of continuous run time if you want.


2. USB and card reader module. Need a USB 3.0 hub/card reader with two ports out the back and two SDXC slots out the front - stack one of those 1/2 footprint jobs onto it. With this as a module and this example, it may make sense to put a microSD card into the pico ITX motherboard layer in the main example.


3. Wireless Connectivity Module. Bluetooth, wifi, IRDA even? All self contained with antenna in the module.


4. Entertainment Center Connectivity Module. HDMI, RCA jacks, Stereo Mic in, Display port, anything else you can jam a plug for on any of the three exposed sides of the module.


5. Wallet Module. With just 0.5cm more depth it could hold credit cards, ID & currency. (OK - so I'm running out of ideas.)

Bringing this back up because I think it is a cool concept and I came up with a couple more modules.


This still assumes that Binky's design is turned into a 50/50 split side to side instead of the roughly 60/40 as picutred.


Robot I/O module - breakout boards and analog controls.


Wheel drive motor (proportional) module.


Wheel steering (proportional) module.


Eyestalk cameras module.


Charger base docking module - powers from the module's side so that the Pandora II can be 'driven' into the charger.


Yep, those are pretty niche items - but with a modular setup like that it would be theoretically possible.
 
@thatgui


the ICP2 layout looks very promissing to me. You should wait until its finally out before you give your final judgement.
I'm sure the ICP2s key layout/placement will suit the ICP2s usecases very good (well, except that two big buttons, which do not make any sense to me). The problem I see is that the use cases for the ICP2 and the Pandora 2 aren't the same. Having something to control "everything" (PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc.) and having controls tailored to a specific device in the first place are totally different things. It's the old "one size fits all" approach, which will leave the Pandora 2 with a inferior keyboard (compared to the first Pandora) behind.

Pandore2 beeing shipped with Android? thats new to me but I doubt that Android will be the main OS. Like you I want a real Linux and I think the majority thinks the same way (including the devs). So don't worry about that point.
Very old news, can't find the actual source right now, but Craig stated that the manufacturer of the SoC that is (highly ?) likely to be used in P2 will provide a working Android build with it, so its hard to believe that Craig will invest any time/work/money/etc. in a real Linux system. He always wanted a more iOS like OS (in terms of usability) for the Pandora, which he simply hadn't the resources for to make it back then, Leaving ED as the sole manufacturer supporting it, but ED is no developer. I'd say it all comes down to notaz - if notaz has no interest in supporting P2, there will be only some half supported builds of some Limux flavours for the Pandora, but nothing really substantial. I know, there are others who do a lot of "grunts" work on the OS behind the scenes, but notaz is the most active one, and is the one who weaves everything together in a usable form.
 
I'm sure the ICP2s key layout/placement will suit the ICP2s usecases very good (well, except that two big buttons, which do not make any sense to me). The problem I see is that the use cases for the ICP2 and the Pandora 2 aren't the same. Having something to control "everything" (PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc.) and having controls tailored to a specific device in the first place are totally different things. It's the old "one size fits all" approach, which will leave the Pandora 2 with a inferior keyboard (compared to the first Pandora) behind.
Using the iCP2 as base would only allow a 4inch screen. It was stated that P2 will have at least HD resolution. And a 4 inch screen with HD? That wouldn't make any sence. For many reasons they almost "have" to use a 5inch display if not more. As you can see, using die iCP will never fit (Galaxy note - 5.3inch screen). So they would have to redesin it. Ok, hopefully they won't just take the iCP2 board and make a bigger casing. In that case I'd have to try the iCP2 keyboard mayself to give final judgement.


ff66277811497bff65a8b9308fb91ba4_large.png



regarding Android,


Craig also needs to find people with Android knowladge to get it running, to fix bugs, to maintain, to provide Android updates. I doubt he'll find them in this community. I do not know of anyone who works on Android for Pandora even after Notaz provided a "just for "fun"" port.
 
And a 4 inch screen with HD? That wouldn't make any sence. For many reasons they almost "have" to use a 5inch display if not more. As you can see, using die iCP will never fit (Galaxy note - 5.3inch screen). So they would have to redesin it. Ok, hopefully they won't just take the iCP2 board and make a bigger casing. In that case I'd have to try the iCP2 keyboard mayself to give final judgement.

So what you're saying is a 4" 1280x720 screen doesn't make sense, but a 5" 1920x1080 screen is totally reasonable?
 
I'm sure the ICP2s key layout/placement will suit the ICP2s usecases very good (well, except that two big buttons, which do not make any sense to me). The problem I see is that the use cases for the ICP2 and the Pandora 2 aren't the same. Having something to control "everything" (PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc.) and having controls tailored to a specific device in the first place are totally different things. It's the old "one size fits all" approach, which will leave the Pandora 2 with a inferior keyboard (compared to the first Pandora) behind.
Using the iCP2 as base would only allow a 4inch screen. It was stated that P2 will have at least HD resolution. And a 4 inch screen with HD? That wouldn't make any sence. For many reasons they almost "have" to use a 5inch display if not more. As you can see, using die iCP will never fit (Galaxy note - 5.3inch screen). So they would have to redesin it. Ok, hopefully they won't just take the iCP2 board and make a bigger casing. In that case I'd have to try the iCP2 keyboard mayself to give final judgement.


ff66277811497bff65a8b9308fb91ba4_large.png



regarding Android,


Craig also needs to find people with Android knowladge to get it running, to fix bugs, to maintain, to provide Android updates. I doubt he'll find them in this community. I do not know of anyone who works on Android for Pandora even after Notaz provided a "just for "fun"" port.

No we don't, chipset manufacturers maintain their own Android ports now, it's how they show off their chips.


Not to mention, if we did need our own team, there are literally dozens of companies that specialise in porting and maintaining Android on everything from phones to tablets to USB PCS to watches and even to fridges.
 
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