Reality Check - Shipping Date

[MaxSteiner]

What would we argue about then? ^_^

 

[wermy]

True. It's probably fun for them to watch us bicker over the nuances of every post they make.

 

[Asmo]

when you say that you are waiting, you are saying that everything is done on your end and that everything else that has to be done to accomplish what you are waiting for can not and is not supposed to be accomplished by you.

-God Ginrai

Not at all, and certainly not from experience here.
Waiting to give the go ahead, pending any number of other obstacles minor or major. Waiting for sufficient funds. Waiting for any number of things before handing over the necessary monies.

If it wasn't explicitly stated as having been set in motion, it isn't at all reasonable to assume this is the case (no pun intended).

 

[God Ginrai]

when you say that you are waiting, you are saying that everything is done on your end and that everything else that has to be done to accomplish what you are waiting for can not and is not supposed to be accomplished by you.

-God Ginrai

Not at all, and certainly not from experience here.
Waiting to give the go ahead, pending any number of other obstacles minor or major. Waiting for sufficient funds. Waiting for any number of things before handing over the necessary monies.

If it wasn't explicitly stated as having been set in motion, it isn't at all reasonable to assume this is the case (no pun intended"].[/quote]Everything you said are things you could be waiting for. But if you are waiting for any of those things, then you are not waiting for the moulds. You can't say that you are waiting for something if there are steps that have to be taken before it that you have yet to take.

-God Ginrai

 

[Asmo]

You can't say that you are waiting for something if there are steps that have to be taken before it that you have yet to take.

-God Ginrai

Remember the LCD screens?

Craig, put us out of our misery.

 

[God Ginrai]

You can't say that you are waiting for something if there are steps that have to be taken before it that you have yet to take.

-God Ginrai

Remember the LCD screens?

Craig, put us out of our misery.

what about them?

-God Ginrai

 

[Monk]

don't step in and clarify? It would only take a moment.

Because it's easier to let Chip or another forumite say "Craig has said it all, he hasn't been unclear or imprecise, he said what he meant and he meant what he said and there are no communication foulups or missing bits of info. Also, this will cause no delay".

Because the delays will be caused by soemthing else that we don't know about!

 

[mafia-man]

I've taken to rocking back and forth in a darkened room muttering incoherently and drooling slightly in anticipation of the Pandora.... while my mind isn't otherwise engaged with work..... or porn.


It works

 

[WhiteBat]

I've taken to rocking back and forth in a darkened room muttering incoherently and drooling slightly in anticipation of the Pandora.... while my mind isn't otherwise engaged with work.....

It works


it does

 

[Asmo]

Remember the LCD screens?

what about them?

-God Ginrai

You don't recall? They were being 'waited on' for months. Until it transpired it was a funding issue.

 

[God Ginrai]

Remember the LCD screens?

what about them?

-God Ginrai

You don't recall? They were being 'waited on' for months. Until it transpired it was a funding issue.

Yes, there was a funding issue. However, there are many different types of funding. I know many people who pay for services that will just charge their credit or debit card when they need the payment. (to renew, etc.) We do know that Craig and Co. at least gave the LCD manufacturer the down payment, so it could be that the company tried to get the bank to send them the rest of the funds and the bank said: "sorry, it's frozen" Or they could have written a check (sp?) for the rest of the funds, and it bounced because, I reiterate, the account was frozen. Either way, they were waiting when they had done everything at the beginning, and the rest was the banks fault.

Now there could be a third choice where they said they were waiting but weren't actually, however the other two seem the more probable answers since they cited the bank freezing their account as the reason that the LCD manufacturer didn't get paid.

-God Ginrai

 

[Asmo]

Remember the LCD screens?

what about them?

-God Ginrai

You don't recall? They were being 'waited on' for months. Until it transpired it was a funding issue.

Yes, there was a funding issue. However, there are many different types of funding. I know many people who pay for services that will just charge their credit or debit card when they need the payment. (to renew, etc.) We do know that Craig and Co. at least gave the LCD manufacturer the down payment, so it could be that the company tried to get the bank to send them the rest of the funds and the bank said: "sorry, it's frozen" Or they could have written a check (sp?"] for the rest of the funds, and it bounced because, I reiterate, the account was frozen. Either way, they were waiting when they had done everything at the beginning, and the rest was the banks fault.

Now there could be a third choice where they said they were waiting but weren't actually, however the other two seem the more probable answers since they cited the bank freezing their account as the reason that the LCD manufacturer didn't get paid.

-God Ginrai[/quote]The exact details of the funding issue are irrelevant. That is hindsight. Up until the time that they finally got the screens, this year, the line to us on the outside was that the supplier was letting them down. They were repeatedly - in their own words - 'waiting on' the screens all that time.
The point being that 'waiting on' demonstrably does not equal ordered/ paid for/ the stated timeframe is ticking down.
It could be the case (hurrah! etc), but as experience suggests - it's not a reasonable assumption.

 

[Monk]

ASSUME is the only word in the English language to make an ASS out of U and ME.

Craig has taken that phrase to a whole new level IMHO, and nothing - NOTHING - should be assumed from what he says beyond the very precise and exact wording he's used. No interpretation, no inferences. If Craig said the sun was visible I'd believe him, but I wouldn't assume it was daytime - the Sun could be visible for all sorts of reasons, from star-moving aliens to giant space-mirrors, I'd put all interpretations at about equal probability. OpenPandora have become masters at not mentioning how or why Pandora will ship later than their comments suggest.

 

[javaJake]

I spy an unhappy camper.

 

[Monk]

Personally, I love camping so much I have a tent permanently erected in my back garden - in fact, I plan to go play with my Dell Netbook there pretty soon! (trying to add Windows XP to the pre-installed Linux installation).

 

[WizardStan]

The exact details of the funding issue are irrelevant. That is hindsight. Up until the time that they finally got the screens, this year, the line to us on the outside was that the supplier was letting them down.

To remind you of exactly how the LCD and funding issues are entirely connected, see here:

Luckily, mass production test run did go pretty fast, so by the end of November, most devs got their boards.
It didn't work so well with the LCDs though - ours had been reserved but sold elsewhere as we didn't have the money at that time.

Remembering that the whole time we were being told:

Well, one thing we're not very happy about is the LCD delivery. We're most probably having problems getting all the LCDs in time, so not all Pandoras can be delivered right away... we're trying all we can to get it to you, but basically, it can even take until 2009 until we get all LCDs. Nobody knows yet - not even the manufacturer. It reminds me of the European launch of the PSP back in 2005... planned for March, it had to be delayed for a few months because LCDs were not finished in time. Funny, eh?
*some more stuff*
All we need to do is wait for those LCDs - and then the fun begins
implying that it was the manufacturer holding them up, when in fact it was the funding issue which kick-started the whole mess.
Also note the use of the word "wait", which is what was referred to before. Are we really waiting on the case moulds this time, or are we waiting on them in the same way we were waiting on the LCDs?

 

[Monk]

Also note the use of the word "wait", which is what was referred to before. Are we really waiting on the case moulds this time, or are we waiting on them in the same way we were waiting on the LCDs?

Oh there's reams and reams of reasons to be cautious of "interpreting" IMHO. For example, who are "we"? Craig? Craig and his family? OpenPandora? This community?

I agree that "this community", for example, is waiting for the cases. I could even say we've paid for them - but that doesn't mean that the manufacturer has been paid, or told to go ahead, or told to make ALL of the case moulds, for example (including the last little modified bits).

The information we have does not so much have potholes in it, so much as it is a collection of potholes with the occasional piece of supporting structure. I see where God Ginrai is coming from, in as much as it OUGHT to be possible to infer simple things from Craig's minimalistic statements, but we have ample (IMHO) evidence that what is implied or inferred on a normal, natural, logical basis from OP statements is often at odds with the facts as they later turn out to be.

I beleive that Asmo's comment about the irrelevance of the funding issues was that it isn't relevant to US (or the discussion) as to how or why the LCDs were delayed, all that is important from his/her/its point of view is that OP said they were "waiting on" the screens then like they say they are "waiting on" the case moulds now, and how that epplies to the current situation not NECESSARILY meaning that the case moulds have been ordered, the factory has been given the big green "GO NOW" button, and all that is to be done is sit and complain about how slow Apple are at getting things done, but how that delay will result in a bigger, better, more expensive game.

 

[God Ginrai]

Remember the LCD screens?

what about them?

-God Ginrai

You don't recall? They were being 'waited on' for months. Until it transpired it was a funding issue.

Yes, there was a funding issue. However, there are many different types of funding. I know many people who pay for services that will just charge their credit or debit card when they need the payment. (to renew, etc.) We do know that Craig and Co. at least gave the LCD manufacturer the down payment, so it could be that the company tried to get the bank to send them the rest of the funds and the bank said: "sorry, it's frozen" Or they could have written a check (sp?"] for the rest of the funds, and it bounced because, I reiterate, the account was frozen. Either way, they were waiting when they had done everything at the beginning, and the rest was the banks fault.

Now there could be a third choice where they said they were waiting but weren't actually, however the other two seem the more probable answers since they cited the bank freezing their account as the reason that the LCD manufacturer didn't get paid.

-God Ginrai[/quote]The exact details of the funding issue are irrelevant. That is hindsight. Up until the time that they finally got the screens, this year, the line to us on the outside was that the supplier was letting them down. They were repeatedly - in their own words - 'waiting on' the screens all that time.
The point being that 'waiting on' demonstrably does not equal ordered/ paid for/ the stated timeframe is ticking down.
It could be the case (hurrah! etc"], but as experience suggests - it's not a reasonable assumption.[/quote]But the details ARE relevant. They determine whether the bank was the one who failed to pay or Craig and Co. were. If it was the bank who failed to pay, then they were indeed "waiting" until they found out, "oh shit, the bank didn't pay them!"

The exact details of the funding issue are irrelevant. That is hindsight. Up until the time that they finally got the screens, this year, the line to us on the outside was that the supplier was letting them down.

To remind you of exactly how the LCD and funding issues are entirely connected, see here:

Luckily, mass production test run did go pretty fast, so by the end of November, most devs got their boards.
It didn't work so well with the LCDs though - ours had been reserved but sold elsewhere as we didn't have the money at that time.

Remembering that the whole time we were being told:

Well, one thing we're not very happy about is the LCD delivery. We're most probably having problems getting all the LCDs in time, so not all Pandoras can be delivered right away... we're trying all we can to get it to you, but basically, it can even take until 2009 until we get all LCDs. Nobody knows yet - not even the manufacturer. It reminds me of the European launch of the PSP back in 2005... planned for March, it had to be delayed for a few months because LCDs were not finished in time. Funny, eh?
*some more stuff*
All we need to do is wait for those LCDs - and then the fun begins :"]
implying that it was the manufacturer holding them up, when in fact it was the funding issue which kick-started the whole mess.
Also note the use of the word "wait", which is what was referred to before. Are we really waiting on the case moulds this time, or are we waiting on them in the same way we were waiting on the LCDs?

That quote from the blog says they didn't have the money at the time. If the bank was supposed to pay, or Craig and Co. were supposed to pay, either way it would be their money, which means either way they didn't have the money. Because there are two possibilities, it is therefore vague, and can't be proof of your point, because if the bank was supposed to pay, then it is proof of my point.[/quote]-God Ginrai

 

[renegadechic]

i really just cant wait til the pandoras are all finally out and we dont have any more pointless posts like this. no one will care about any of this any more and we will stop arguing and i will have less of a headache. does anybody actually find these discussions interesting or are they just vehicles for grumpy people to let off some steam? go for a run or something.

 

[God Ginrai]

i really just cant wait til the pandoras are all finally out and we dont have any more pointless posts like this. no one will care about any of this any more and we will stop arguing and i will have less of a headache. does anybody actually find these discussions interesting or are they just vehicles for grumpy people to let off some steam? go for a run or something.

You get rusty if you don't make forum posts for a while. It's like keeping in shape mentally.

-God Ginrai