4G on Pyra.


rygD

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I wonder how telcos are able to tell if you're tethering or not. They could tell by the type of traffic you're requesting, I guess, but only after observing your connection for a little while, whereas if you're not set up for tethering, telcos these days block the connection on the first packet, it seems.
How would the traffic be different?  I would also like to know how they can tell.  I figured streaming (or whatever) with the device that has the sim would look the same as if I were streaming it to a laptop tethered to that device. 
 
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oxym

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I've heard that TTL of IP can be used to limit tethering. If set to 1, it will reach the first router - which in this case is a phone.

Some routers have an option to refrain from updating TTL.
 

WizardStan

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telcos these days block the connection on the first packet, it seems
There's a lot of clues when tethering. The TTL, your browser's user string, the MAC address in the packet, other TCP/IP values that may be different from your phones, etc...Really they aren't looking for "is this a computer" so much as "is this packet different from other packets we've seen and therefore almost definitely from a source other than the phone".
 

Askarus

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What other benefits will 4g bring us? Downloading on the go, online multiplayer on the go and probably many other things that i have yet to think of.
Not that much.

At least in Germany as there is no unlimited Internet.

Most phone provider have less than 1Gig high speed, and then it's about 50 kb/s.

Best available is 10Gb (once there was 15 but they abandoned it).

At least that's what I figured out 1-2 Months ago.
Who offers 10Gb and for how much money? The best I found is Alditalk: 5Gb for 15e
Forget it.

I looked it up again and they further reduced it to 5gb.

It's fastsim.

Once they had an offer for 15GB.

Now they are down to 5GB.
 

rohezal

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There's a lot of clues when tethering. The TTL, your browser's user string, the MAC address in the packet, other TCP/IP values that may be different from your phones, etc...
So you have to use ssl / ssh / vpn connections and tell your router software to use the tcp / ip headers the phone uses (dont touch the ttl when the value is max).
 

levi

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Here's what giffgaff in the UK do to identify tetherers and those using a tablet. It makes it sound like it's up to them to identify what sort of device you are using, and the fact they put tablet use with tethering to a PC as a value added feature normally disallowed gives them leeway to decide that the Pyra is a tablet computer, rather than a phone if they wanted to.

On another topic, I hope the Pyra will support SIM locking passwords.
 

Silent-Hunter

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It seems to me, since the Pyra has the voice lines connected, it just needs to come with a simple software to allow it to make a call, even minicom would do. That would make it a phone by their own definition.
 

_jr_

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I suspect they will update this definition pretty fast if a Pyra user actually starts to create serious loads on the network.
 

rygD

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I suspect they will update this definition pretty fast if a Pyra user actually starts to create serious loads on the network.
How would it be different to them than an android fone? Are Pyra calls going to tie things up more than other calls?  I think it would benefit these companies because they get the same money from customers, but don't have to sell a handset at a discounted rate.  Even if a company were to get 6000 new Pyra owners as customers, it seems it would be better for them to allow those people to have voice services, and have the same restrictions they use for other voice capable devices, with a caveat of no assistance with the hardware or getting it operational on the network.  
 
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_jr_

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They don't actually care whether the device is a phone or not, they care about average use cases to make their business model work. With phones there may be some 'power users', but most will not use it to run, let' say, an continuous build server on it. With tablets and especially the Pyra the percentage of users doing something nerdy like that is significantly larger. I'd wager they monitor their usage statistics closely, and if some Pyra owners begin to use their network like a desktop would use a wired connection, they will update their policy to exclude devices with keyboards, standard linux distributions, or whatever criterion happens to pop into their mind at the time without batting an eye.
 

WizardStan

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I suspect they will update this definition pretty fast if a Pyra user actually starts to create serious loads on the network.
More than likely there won't be any policy update, the worst case will simply be they have an automated system that says "this looks like a computer" and drops it and you have to call up and explain that it matches their definition of a phone and there'll be a lot of headache for you trying to explain it to them but in the end they won't actually change anything.Maybe if 100'000 Pyra's suddenly pop up they might start to get bothered.
 

rygD

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They don't actually care whether the device is a phone or not, they care about average use cases to make their business model work. With phones there may be some 'power users', but most will not use it to run, let' say, an continuous build server on it. With tablets and especially the Pyra the percentage of users doing something nerdy like that is significantly larger. I'd wager they monitor their usage statistics closely, and if some Pyra owners begin to use their network like a desktop would use a wired connection, they will update their policy to exclude devices with keyboards, standard linux distributions, or whatever criterion happens to pop into their mind at the time without batting an eye.
Ok, so you are looking at the classification due to data usage.  The company I will probably go with is cheaper for data only plans (it depends on which specific plan and details), but I there are probably some who can get the voice and data plans cheaper.  I used to be one of those "power users" when I was required to be reachable at all times.  I was also one of those people that led to companies ending unlimited data plans, however I was grandfathered in long after that ended for the company.  Since I had to have the leash, and I was not usually near wifi, I used it for everything, and it did have a keyboard.  Now I just want the Pyra with 4G for voice and messaging.  If the companies would let me skip the data I would.  Can I do that (legally?) by not mentioning what type of device it is, or buying just a sim, and activating it online, or with prepaid stuff?
 

Silent-Hunter

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It depends on the company. AT&T will let you do that. They just say to buy whatever sim card you like, sign up for what plan you like, and put it in whatever device you like.
 

Ligachamp

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The device "detection" is usually given by the used APN. In our country there are a few usable APN's per provider. When you set up a plan, you find the usable APN's in the contract and thats the point where device detection happens. After activating your new SIM/contract the APN's on your phone get reconfigured automatically. As they want you to use your free GB only for surfing with your smartphone, there gets created an APN which is used only by the phone. But when you open up an access point (which can do nearly everyone these days), another preconfigured APN gets used, which is not listed in the contract. This way they can make you pay for every other device using your SIM card's internet. 


But this all means, the solution is quite simple. In my case I deleted all other APN's configured on my phone, except that one that is listed in the contract. Now when I'm sharing my internet, the whole traffic goes through my "free GB connection" (strange description xD) and I pay nothing in addition for it :)

Only thing to mention, this solution works for ALL mobile internet devices, which includes phones of course, but also data sticks, mobile routers etc. The only device on which it isn't working is our famous iPhone, which doesn't let you change APN configurations...



 
 
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TrashyMG

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I'm all good, as I only I want to play single player games on Pyra. For internet I'll just use my phone.
Ugg...  I prefer the Pandora's poor wifi and bloated firefox over my phone... and it's a Samsung Galaxy S4
 

Natsu

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So 4G is now an actual option? Is Pyra 3G by default or can you still get wifi only?
 

rygD

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My guess is that 3G will replace 4G, but I don't have a very good understanding of compatability, just stuff I have read related to this type of discussion.  As I understand it the wifi only option would not be changed because of this (4G replaces 3G, not wifi only).
 
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