Building A New Computer


andius

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Ok, its been ages since i've gotten a new computer and im pretty behind the times when it comes to knowing about these things, but i did some research and came up with these two configurations; an Amd and an Intel Set-up.

Intel:
-Core 2 Duo E6600
-2 gb ddr2-800 pc6400
-Geforce 8800 GTX 768 Mb
-Plus some optical drives and liquid cooling, hdd all the rest

The Amd set-up is bassically the same but it would be the Athlon 64 X2 5200 or 5000, im not sure which would be better. I'm also curious as to know if there are suggestions about the video card, i was thinking maybe going with the cheaper Ati x1950xtx card instead.

From what i can tell, people are liking the Core 2 Duo more than the Amd X2 chipsets, but i was wondering for some advice, anything really. The two set-ups are both roughly the same price > 1781 for the intel and 1768 for the Amd. this is from Ibuypower.com btw, i've heard good things about their computers, true?

I'm bassically looking for any advice or suggestions. Thanks in advance
 
You didn't say what you intend to DO with the machine-- this is very important info. In most cases, it's better to buy at the low-end and just overclock a bit for the best performance, as high-end parts generally get you very little bang-for-the buck. For example, an Athlon 64 3000+ can cost you under $100 yet overclock with its stock cooling to the performance level of an FX-55, -57 or higher! A very good choice for an inexpensive yet very powerful (and overclockable) CPU is the Athlon 64 X2 3800+. The 4200+ is also an excellent choice. The Core 2 Duos are nice chips but still rather expensive, and they do necessitate the use of more expensive RAM. The performance benefits may or may not be worth it depending on your use of the hardware.

If you opt for an AMD processor be sure you pick an nForce 3, 4, or 5 series chipset. The models with onboard graphics are excellent as well, e.g. nF410/430. I have Biostar's TForce-6100 (socket 939 version) board and it works spectacularly. VIA chipsets are notoriously unstable with flaky software support, and SiS is pretty much as close as you can get to the level of stability you'd gain using a block of smoked ham as a chipset.

The video card is really overkill for just about anything available to play today. What do you intend to run? ... I advise the 7800GTO since it benchmarks just 1-2% below the 7800GTX, yet is extremely competitively priced. This card will run every game on the market extremely well.

Liquid cooling-- why? Intend to do a lot of overclocking? Core 2 Duos and Athlon 64s/X2s are very cool-running processors. They will not run faster if better cooled. I use liquid cooling because I insist on my computer being completely silent (and I have a very large overclock, an X2 4200+, natively 2.2 GHz, running at 2.8 GHz.)

Do not shop at iBuyPower. Their systems are really crummy low-grade machines-- for example, their laptops are just off-the-shelf designs from China with a new logo slapped on them. They're very poorly built, often unreliable, and their customer support is abysmal. I've never known a company to be quite as miserable and unprofessional as them.

Customize your machine's parts at monarchcomputer.com and have them build it for you. It'll cost you approximately the cost of parts and ~$50 to build and ship it to you-- their build quality is top notch and their support is great, too. They also work fast.

Do not neglect a good power supply. A powerful system and a shitty PSU can result in a lot of fried hardware. Opt for something from Antec, Enermax, Fortron (FSP), or Seasonic that has enough amps on the +12v rails for your hardware (use this chart for reference.. http://www.shsc.info/Powersupplyguide. You may need to look up exact real-world power consumption of the parts you select. Give yourself headroom.

Can you pose any more specific questions along with exactly what you want to do on the machine? ...
 
Ok here we go; I'm going to use the computer for 3d modeling, lots of gaming, and graphic design work.
The reason for the over-the-top card is that my parents are going to pay for half of this, and i need it to last as long as possible (soon to be college student). I also had a lot of problems with heating on my current comp and i can't stand the amount of noise pollution it causes in my room; so i bassically want to end these problems for sure.

Right now the computer im dealing with is very unstable and annoying, so I want an extremely stable all-around worstation, geared towards high-end gaming and graphic intensive work.


I guess I wil use Monarch's site the, thanks for all the info.
 
By the time that comes out, you'll see something "cooler", its a game they play that will frustrate you unless you decide to not wait.

I'm going to build a MicroATX system with Intel Core Duo 2 or whatever its called, I'm in need of a better PC by now and smaller computers are starting to look more and more attractive to me.

I usually buy AMD but the last two times I bought from them the system ended up crapping out, so now that I can afford Intel and they finally have a processor that can not only compete with but supposedly surpass AMD, I have decided to go with them.

I researched Mini-ITX as well (even smaller) but IMHO they are just overpriced bricks of VIA brand crap.
 
Ok here we go; I'm going to use the computer for 3d modeling, lots of gaming, and graphic design work.
The reason for the over-the-top card is that my parents are going to pay for half of this, and i need it to last as long as possible (soon to be college student). I also had a lot of problems with heating on my current comp and i can't stand the amount of noise pollution it causes in my room; so i bassically want to end these problems for sure.
Buying the highest-end video card is always a bad idea, because you get ~5% more performance for 100-300% more money. The same goes for CPUs. I strongly recommend the 7800GTO. Pour extra money into plenty of HDD storage. On a college connection, you will probably be downloading a LOT and burn through any available storage space quickly. If your experience is at all like mine, in a college dorm you'll meet lots of people and be trading gigs upon gigs of movies, music and games-- you will appreciate the space. Also pour money into better cooling equipment and a more efficient and stable power supply that will last for years, and probably outlast the PC itself.

For noise reduction, use ONLY 120mm fans in the system. NO 80mm or lower fans! Even 92mm is ill-advised. For your CPU cooler, a good bet is the Zalman CNPS7000, 7700 or 9500, -Cu or -AlCu. Do not get the -Al versions, they are not quite as good at dispersing heat. These are all very quiet coolers and close to silent in most situations. GPU fans are very loud, replace your GPU cooler with a Zalman VF700-Cu or -AlCu. I'd advise using Arctic Silver 5 for your thermal interface material if you do the replacement yourself. Maybe Monarch can do it for you.

As for HEAT, the PC is not going to emit less heat no matter how well you cool it. Cooling it better will release more heat into your room, in fact. Just pick lower-heat components. A dual-core processor will definitely run hotter than a single-core one. If this is a crucial issue I advise going with an Athlon 64 X2 for the 'Cool'n'Quiet' technology. When the CPU is not being worked to 100%, it will lower its clockrate and core voltage automatically, dramatically reducing heat output. I've had this make close to a 10-degree temperature difference in my room before, going from 2800 MHz/1.4v idle to 800 MHz/0.8v idle and putting my GPU in 2D mode. You might also consider one of AMD's new "EE" (energy efficient) X2 chips. More expensive, but they run incredibly cool. The best thing on Intel's side right now is a dual-core Pentium-M "Yonah" or similar, but these don't even begin to match the performance level of an X2 in most cases.

Don't bother waiting for a quad-core processor. You won't likely see significant benefits in most of your work, and your 3D rendering application may not even be multithreaded and therefore would only function on ONE core.

As far as 'lasting a long time', you shouldn't have a problem if you pick components that aren't terribly outmoded. For the work you do, you do NOT need the most cutting edge on the market by any means. Just make sure you pick a motherboard with a CPU socket, RAM variety and graphics card slot (should be 1 or more PCIe x16 slot) that is easy to upgrade later.

Blah said:
I usually buy AMD but the last two times I bought from them the system ended up crapping out, so now that I can afford Intel and they finally have a processor that can not only compete with but supposedly surpass AMD, I have decided to go with them.
This isn't the fault of the CPU, absolutely some other issue in your system, like an unstable chipset (VIA, SiS?), bad RAM, a faulty power supply, a poor-quality motherboard... you'd really have to define 'crapping out'. AMD's processors are outclassed on the high end by Intel's right now, but they are a bargain price-wise, still have the heat/power consumption advantage in most scenarios (especially the EE series), overclock remarkably well, and provide a far-superior 64-bit implementation for when Vista rolls around. I stick with them right now because I'm more comfortable with the platforms overall. Especially fond of the nForce 430 chipset. The onboard GF6 video saved my ass when my 6600GT burned out.
 
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That sort of overclockability is common on Venice cores and derivatives. Mine is, IIRC, a Toledo core and easily made the jump from 2.2 -> 2.7 GHz with total stability, ~2.8 with near-total stability. Some of the newer Socket 939 Opterons can go even further without touching the core voltage-- so there won't even be a very significant heat increase.
 
Ok thanks for the great info Epicenter, I'm gonna take everything into consideration when building my computer. I think im going to go with the Intel Duo 2 6600 and the Nvidia 7800gto, i already have 430 gigs worth of drives that i have on my current comp, so im just going to use those in the new one, plus a fresh 250 gig drive. Heat isn't a problem for me, but noise level is, i think im gonna spend some more and get the liquid cooling.
 
You may want to check out the lower end E6300. From what I have read it quite happily overclocks from the standard 1.86 GHz to 3GHz using the stock cooling. When overclocked to this level it can absolutely thrash a Core 2 Extreme.
 
It was the processor that died both times. One time was mostly the fault of bad mains power (the PSU was a good brand).

The other was partly the fault of the guy who installed the second chip, he put too much thermal compound on the core and it shorted out months later. Had I'd have known that he was so incompetent, I would had installed the chip myself (I didn't want to be liable though, etc, etc).

Meanwhile, my brother's Intel system lived on through all sorts of detrimental situations.

Then I purchased another motherboard, but by the time I got the money to build the computer the motherboard was outdated (the processor would have been ridiculously overpriced), so ended up selling the motherboard which was originally $100 for $20.

That experience has left a bad taste in my mouth on the AMD side of things. And no, it wasn't VIA, it was Asus with Nforce2. I know from experiences long ago (the Pentium 2 days) that VIA really really sucks. My slogan for that particular (Soyo/VIA) motherboard was "Guaranteed BSOD every 10 minutes"
 
It was the processor that died both times. One time was mostly the fault of bad mains power (the PSU was a good brand).

The other was partly the fault of the guy who installed the second chip, he put too much thermal compound on the core and it shorted out months later. Had I'd have known that he was so incompetent, I would had installed the chip myself (I didn't want to be liable though, etc, etc).
What does shitty power killing your CPU mean AMD CPUs are poor? :p If anything, survival from a blown PSU is dictated by PSU and motherboard design. As for the thermal compound bit, any CPU can be destroyed by overuse of thermal compound. Again doesn't really make much sense.
 
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I'm not blaming AMD for bad power, but the Intel system DID last longer under the same conditions.

And I'm not saying that's a reason to not buy AMD, I'm don't mean "hey man don't buy AMD cus mine broke"...that's not the point. What is the point is that by the benchmarks you get more out of Intels current offerings, for a change (AMD was the leader before). And if you have the money, you will put the effort into making a system you'll be proud to own for a few years. Then you can be lazy and not upgrade it for a while. Otherwise its okay to go with AMD or even VIA depending on what you want
(VIA is for cheap little systems that don't need a lot of power...home theater, etc.).
 
Intel's current offerings are faster at the high-end, but not enough that you can say you won't need to upgrade for significantly longer. Whichever CPU brand you choose, you should be picking a socket and motherboard chipset that ensures longevity of the system via compatibility with the latest CPUs, RAM technologies and video cards. As far as futureproofing goes, because of Intel's love of switching chipsets at the drop of a hat and making new CPUs incompatible with the previous chipset generation, and due to superior support for 64-bit software, a Socket AM2 system with an Athlon X2 is probably the most 'future proofed' system you can build, while an Intel machine will provide superior performance in the meantime if you are looking to drop a lot of money on it. It all boils down to the builder's priorities.
 
Is there such a thing as a future proof PC? The technology is changing soo fast these days that no matter what you buy it's gonna be out of date in 3 months.
The only thing I can think of that could be in any way near future proof is the PSU, and even that area can throw you around as who knows what style power connectors we will need in future generation machines. Because of this I bought a modular PSU, it should (Fingers Crossed) be the only thing I won't need to upgrade in the near future. And even if I need a new connector, I will probably be able to modify one of the present sockets. But now that I have typed this, I bet I will be wrong :blink:.
 
Future-proofing is a relative thing. I count a 'future proof' machine as one that has a motherboard that supports the next generation, at least, of CPUs and the RAM required to run them, as well as the required slots for standard peripheral cards e.g. video, audio, so forth.. as well as connectivity for modern and upcoming drive standard interface such as the latest implementation of SATA (though, I still use PATA for most things personally.)

As for a PSU, you can just use adapters for funny new connectors. It's not ideal if they ordinarily have their own supply rails like +3.3v/+5v/+12v, but it'll do in a pinch and if the rail has sufficient amperage available, it should be perfectly safe and stable.
 
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