Release Mupen64Plus new version runs Zelda OOT and much more !!


Yeah, I had a temporary moment of non-thought there, kinda "Look at the Pics on that!", when far more important is a decent backend that allows for more games to be played
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I'll get my coat!
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I don't suppose there is a list of which versions of mupen which perform best is there?


That would be a useful wiki page.
 
I don't suppose there is a list of which versions of mupen which perform best is there?


That would be a useful wiki page.
Not currently, but feel free to add the info to the existing Mupen page - I'm sure other people will add info there too once someone starts.
 
Very stoked. My Pandora will be here in a week. Give a day or so. I look forward to playing with Mupen.
 
daedalusx64 has a big performance advantage because it can access the PSP's GPU hardware directly, without having to go through OpenGL ES 2 drivers like on Pandora. With old console games there can be a lot of state changes which can have a big impact on driver performance.
 
daedalusx64 has a big performance advantage because it can access the PSP's GPU hardware directly, without having to go through OpenGL ES 2 drivers like on Pandora. With old console games there can be a lot of state changes which can have a big impact on driver performance.
Yeah I would agree with this, I'm not sure we can get this kind of performance on pandora.
 
I don't think there's a bottleneck per se. If you could somehow make the CPU emulation 2x faster it'd still have a major impact on performance. But I think that a whole lot more CPU time than should be necessary is being spent in the graphics drivers, or at least that's the impression I got from Adventus. CPU emulation improvements are probably going to be more and more minor. I have no idea how much realistic improvement could be made on the GPU side.
 
So I have played outside kokiri and even at 1050mhz I can't say its playable. Perhaps someone can post their settings file they use and consider "playable".
 
daedalusx64 has a big performance advantage because it can access the PSP's GPU hardware directly, without having to go through OpenGL ES 2 drivers like on Pandora.
Uh, why can Daedalusx64 do this? I mean we have a "Open Source Handheld" but the Fort-Knox-Secured PSP Hardware is open for direct access? Twisted World? :rolleyes:


So, would this kind of stuff be possible on the Pandora, at least in theory? What has to happen to go all way around the "bottlenecks"? What blocks the direct access to the OMAP Chipset / SGX Unit 'n stuff? I thought all the OMAP Chipset is well documented but maybe I mix some things up here. ^^""
 
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Uh, why can Daedalusx64 do this? I mean we have a "Open Source Handheld" but the Fort-Knox-Secured PSP Hardware is open for direct access? Twisted World? So, would this kind of stuff be possible on the Pandora, at least in theory? What has to happen to go all way around the "bottlenecks"? What blocks the direct access to the OMAP Chipset / SGX Unit 'n stuff? I thought all the OMAP Chipset is well documented but maybe I mix some things up here. ^^""

PSP heavily abstracts a lot of its hardware in OS/libraries. The GPU is not so heavily abstracted, why? Because low level access is important for performance. It's precisely because gaming devices aren't open that console companies are more willing to reveal the necessary low level information on how to program their GPUs, because they make game developers sign NDAs to receive this information. Most GPU manufacturers don't want everyone to know this information because they feel that it gives them a competitive disadvantage. Whether or not this is true is up for debate, but this is how the industry has usually worked without that much exception.


Even John Carmack admits that game consoles have a performance advantage over phones by providing lower level libraries. He says that PSVita will have a full generational advantage because of this.


Getting that kind of direct access to SGX w/o going through OpenGL ES 2 would require reverse engineering it and writing libraries for it (IMO, you would NOT want to just go and write your own OpenGL ES 2 implementation, or at least not exactly..). Someone on the old Pandora boards was doing just that but he appears to have vanished. No, it is not well documented, neither is any other OpenGL ES 2 level chipset I know of. In theory you'd probably have a much easier time doing low level stuff for Wiz/Caanoo because the Pollux datasheet has a fair amount of information (albeit in confusing English), but for some reason you don't see anyone attempting this either.
 
daedalusx64 has a big performance advantage because it can access the PSP's GPU hardware directly, without having to go through OpenGL ES 2 drivers like on Pandora. With old console games there can be a lot of state changes which can have a big impact on driver performance.
I don't think there's a bottleneck per se. If you could somehow make the CPU emulation 2x faster it'd still have a major impact on performance. But I think that a whole lot more CPU time than should be necessary is being spent in the graphics drivers, or at least that's the impression I got from Adventus. CPU emulation improvements are probably going to be more and more minor. I have no idea how much realistic improvement could be made on the GPU side.


Can't admit to understanding all you refer to Exophase, but it does sound quite depressing for the 'future' of N64 emulation on Pandora.


I do love my unit, but THE (not the only one) reason i got myself a Pandora was for the sheer unadulterated joy of having a N64 (& it's game library ) in my pocket.. having Mario 64, Mario Kart, & a handful of others playable is great & all.. but if the majority of the games are never going to run (at least at playable speed) it will be a huge disappointment as far as i am concerned.. i am still optimistic though & and major kudos must go to Ari64 for his superb work so far.. long may it continue.
 
PSP heavily abstracts a lot of its hardware in OS/libraries. The GPU is not so heavily abstracted, why? Because low level access is important for performance. It's precisely because gaming devices aren't open that console companies are more willing to reveal the necessary low level information on how to program their GPUs, because they make game developers sign NDAs to receive this information. Most GPU manufacturers don't want everyone to know this information because they feel that it gives them a competitive disadvantage. Whether or not this is true is up for debate, but this is how the industry has usually worked without that much exception.


Even John Carmack admits that game consoles have a performance advantage over phones by providing lower level libraries. He says that PSVita will have a full generational advantage because of this.


Getting that kind of direct access to SGX w/o going through OpenGL ES 2 would require reverse engineering it and writing libraries for it (IMO, you would NOT want to just go and write your own OpenGL ES 2 implementation, or at least not exactly..). Someone on the old Pandora boards was doing just that but he appears to have vanished. No, it is not well documented, neither is any other OpenGL ES 2 level chipset I know of. In theory you'd probably have a much easier time doing low level stuff for Wiz/Caanoo because the Pollux datasheet has a fair amount of information (albeit in confusing English), but for some reason you don't see anyone attempting this either.

I understand. Its's sad that the average customer of "Hombrew Hardware" is just some kind of second class user, while the big Console Companies give the full access to their stuff for their devs.


I guess a NDA for full OMAP 3530 documentations 'n stuff would cost a fortune and a first born? Somehow I think, a possible "Pandora 2" should not use a TI OMAP chipset but anything else that has better free HW Documentation and better drivers - if there is anything decent out there.


Damn, would be really cool to know what our devs could pull out if they had all access to the Hardware, down to the bare metal. :D I bet, even the PSP Vita had to hide then behind the Pandora. ^^
 
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There ISN'T something else with "better free HW documentation" for mobile SoCs. You're asking for something that doesn't exist. I don't think the driver quality for SGX is much worse than what you get for other platforms either. Go look at Adreno, Mali, Tegra - none of them have more open documentation. Other platforms like Vivante give even less information. And even if there was more information I doubt anyone would do their own low level library just like they haven't on Wiz even though the 3D performance with the drivers isn't good.


It's not like OMAPs are the only SoCs that use SGX either. Pandora 2 should most likely stick with OMAP to make the transition simpler. You live in a strange reality if you think that Pandora devs could make the machine rival Vita if they had more information. This isn't magic. Vita is monstrously more powerful than Pandora and those devs probably WILL have better low level access.. and don't underestimate game devs. The game industry probably has a lot more hardcore optimizers than the Pandora community, especially when it comes to 3D graphics.
 


Sony, this is actually faster that my Pandora can actually provides when I'm playing OOT with 800 Mhz <_<


Of course this isn't fast enough for me as well, and the sound is not perfect at all, especially when there is cinematic sequences :ph34r:


Mupen64 for me is useless, without leaving all my respect to those who are working on it, because I know they are really working hard,


But if it's not playable, I don't use it, and if I don't use it, this is useless. :(
 
There ISN'T something else with "better free HW documentation" for mobile SoCs. You're asking for something that doesn't exist. I don't think the driver quality for SGX is much worse than what you get for other platforms either. Go look at Adreno, Mali, Tegra - none of them have more open documentation. Other platforms like Vivante give even less information. And even if there was more information I doubt anyone would do their own low level library just like they haven't on Wiz even though the 3D performance with the drivers isn't good.


It's not like OMAPs are the only SoCs that use SGX either. Pandora 2 should most likely stick with OMAP to make the transition simpler. You live in a strange reality if you think that Pandora devs could make the machine rival Vita if they had more information. This isn't magic. Vita is monstrously more powerful than Pandora and those devs probably WILL have better low level access.. and don't underestimate game devs. The game industry probably has a lot more hardcore optimizers than the Pandora community, especially when it comes to 3D graphics.
Yes, we will not reach the PS Vita. But at least PSP/NDS Standard Graphics should be no Problem for the Pandora. ;)


And actualy, we wouldn't need any documentation if our Drivers would be better IMHO. From the PC I usualy expect regular Driver updates from the hardware manufacturers and for example NVidia always does a great job in this. I would expect the same from SGX and TI to all their customers (not only Pandora) but I've never heared anything about regular OMAP Driver updates, at least nothing that really has some advantages in performance here and there. :huh:


Yes, the clocks seems to tick in a different way in ARM world and I guess I have wrong ideas about how the stuff works. I just want to say our devs do a great job to pull out that much of the Pandora, no complaining about this. :) Under the circumstances they often have to work, it is always a miracle. ^^
 
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