Pandora Cpu Question

[mazza558]

Surely those who have seen the iPhone won't be as impressed? After all, the iPhone does a lot of that without "vibrating, heating, noising and gasping for more juice every 2 hours".

they will be impressed at the amount of freedom they have though after using the most restrictive and locked piece of shi**, I mean hardware, out there... The screen actually having a decent resolution will impress too.

Sorry to come across as harsh but I recently ended up with an iPhone (because the phone selection here is extremely limited) and if I hadn't jailbroken my phone it would have gone out the window a long time ago. Also, if you use the 3G/GPS/Wifi/Games/etc. a lot the iPhone WILL gasp for more juice every 2 hours and probably crash and get stuck several times too in the process...



The problem is, with some of my iPhone/iPod touch-using friends, a Jailbroken iPhone is "way cooler" than a Pandora, because at that point, people figure they have the same freedom to do what they want as a Pandora. As you can do what you want on the Pandora anyway, people will just go "so what?", as it's more rebellious to "hack" something that shouldn't be.

 

[TaG]

The problem is, with some of my iPhone/iPod touch-using friends, a Jailbroken iPhone is "way cooler" than a Pandora, because at that point, people figure they have the same freedom to do what they want as a Pandora. As you can do what you want on the Pandora anyway, people will just go "so what?", as it's more rebellious to "hack" something that shouldn't be.
Again, so what? Who cares. They are different devices aimed at different markets. Pandora is not aiming to compete and beat every other device out there. It also has nothing to do with the original topic.

 

[mali]

Again, so what? Who cares. They are different devices aimed at different markets. Pandora is not aiming to compete and beat every other device out there. It also has nothing to do with the original topic.

Exactly

 

[Joshwaan2k]

Np guys thanks for the replys

 

[Squidge]

Maybe we should put some DRM onto Pandora and only run software certified by Craigix. That would give people something to hack

 

[emumanx]

As an everyday user of the DELL AXIM X51v (624mhz Arm based 256MB PPC) Iam sure the pandora will blow me away with the overall speed by comparison. BTW I use the X51v for work (I needed to share MS office calender daily for my on-site job info , notes etc...).

Just want to say that overall the X51V can do lot ALOT (homebrew wise - I normaly compile for PPC and GP2X at the same time) so I cant wait to start writting new stuff for the Pandora

Stay Strong ! Pandora is on the way !

 

[mali]

As an everyday user of the DELL AXIM X51v (624mhz Arm based 256MB PPC) Iam sure the pandora will blow me away with the overall speed by comparison. BTW I use the X51v for work (I needed to share MS office calender daily for my on-site job info , notes etc...).

Just want to say that overall the X51V can do lot ALOT (homebrew wise - I normaly compile for PPC and GP2X at the same time) so I cant wait to start writting new stuff for the Pandora

Stay Strong ! Pandora is on the way !

I've got one, too. ATM it sits in my car connected to my car stereo playing mp3 and doing navigation. It has got a PowerVR MBX, the predecessor of the SGX and does some pretty cool video decoding(thinking about TCPMP) and accelerated Quake rocks

 

[benjiro]

As an everyday user of the DELL AXIM X51v (624mhz Arm based 256MB PPC) Iam sure the pandora will blow me away with the overall speed by comparison.

The 256MB is a bit misleading. Almost had me going: "wtf, the x51v serie did not have 256MB ram". Lets see, its been a while, the Axim X51v has 256MB Flash, and 64MB Ram. I've been comparing the x50v ( that i own ) for a while with the Pandora.

In terms of ram speed, the CPU is able to do about double the work the x5xv's can ( not taking in account, neos, dsp ). It also holds about 4 times the memory ( 256MB vs 64MB ), and double ( x51v - 256MB ) or quad ( x50v 128MB ) the flash memory. The GPU on the other hand the Pandora's SGX has about 10 times the performance of the 2700g ( also not taking in account the more advanced feature set ). Same with the memory. The 2700g has 16MB dedicated memory with maximum 400 MB/s theoretical bandwidth, vs the pandora's 4 times theoretical bandwidth, and no "limit" because of the unified memory system...

If you compare it like that, the Pandora is ofcourse a monster that goes between 2 to 10 times improvements ( and not taking in account some more advanced feature sets ).

 

[icurafu]

The CPU performance is quite a lot more than double. The intel ARM CPU used on the axim was well know to perform about half as well as the Samsung strongARMs styled CPUs found in most other PDAs.

Yeah, I've got the HP hx4700, which has the same CPU. Friends with 400MHz samsung ARM9 CPUs get a much greater performance output.

 

[Exophase]

The CPU performance is quite a lot more than double. The intel ARM CPU used on the axim was well know to perform about half as well as the Samsung strongARMs styled CPUs found in most other PDAs.

Yeah, I've got the HP hx4700, which has the same CPU. Friends with 400MHz samsung ARM9 CPUs get a much greater performance output.

It's often repeated that the XScale CPUs performed half as many instructions per cycle as their predecessors, but no one ever gives a real world explanation for this. My guess is that it has little to do with the CPUs and a lot to do with other aspects of the system.

 

[emumanx]

My bad lol ! yup 256MB of Flash ram 64MB of usable RAM. I also have the X50v and let me tell you that the 128MB of extra flash memory makes the X51v almost twice as fast. (loading and using programs). - it has to do with the WM6 o/s running totaly off the flash. As for the 2700g it kind of gives myself and Mali a small insight into having 3d accelerated games on a handheld. (COD2 is just sweet on the PPC with the 2700g).....
But hey apples and pandoras HAHA.

So yes I totaly understand how much better the Pan will be over that PPC. As Mali says it's very usefull indeed to have in your car. Hummm will the Pan replace my PPC??? I think not. Simply because I HAVE to have Microsoft Calendar as per works request (do a sync every morning for jobs)

On the other hand the raw power (handheld power that is) of the Pandora will surly replace many other small devices I own. Hence keeping my pockets at my side and not my knee's lol.

 

[mali]

My bad lol ! yup 256MB of Flash ram 64MB of usable RAM. I also have the X50v and let me tell you that the 128MB of extra flash memory makes the X51v almost twice as fast. (loading and using programs). - it has to do with the WM6 o/s running totaly off the flash. As for the 2700g it kind of gives myself and Mali a small insight into having 3d accelerated games on a handheld. (COD2 is just sweet on the PPC with the 2700g).....
But hey apples and pandoras HAHA.

So yes I totaly understand how much better the Pan will be over that PPC. As Mali says it's very usefull indeed to have in your car. Hummm will the Pan replace my PPC??? I think not. Simply because I HAVE to have Microsoft Calendar as per works request (do a sync every morning for jobs)

On the other hand the raw power (handheld power that is) of the Pandora will surly replace many other small devices I own. Hence keeping my pockets at my side and not my knee's lol.

http://forum.openpandora.org/viewtopic.php...ce&start=10
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?act=S...sult_type=posts

roshua is going to port Win CE to Pandora, so it might be possible that you can rest your PPC in the drawer(my Axim will supposedly continue its work in my car because I would be to lazy to connect and disconnect all the time). As I understand it, there haven't been released all drivers, yet.

I know, that CE will tease some folks to start bickering and doing the S to $ thing, but it would just make the Pandora stronger. One to rule them all

 

[benjiro]

My bad lol ! yup 256MB of Flash ram 64MB of usable RAM. I also have the X50v and let me tell you that the 128MB of extra flash memory makes the X51v almost twice as fast. (loading and using programs). - it has to do with the WM6 o/s running totaly off the flash. As for the 2700g it kind of gives myself and Mali a small insight into having 3d accelerated games on a handheld. (COD2 is just sweet on the PPC with the 2700g).....
But hey apples and pandoras HAHA.

We never upgraded the x50v here to WM5 or 6. Forgot what version made it use its flash as permanent basis. So, the x50v is actually faster then the x51v or a upgraded x50v. But, if you forget to charge it in time, say goodbye to all your installed in memory programs ( like my father found out last week ). Its a tradeoff...

Now, the 2700g, that was the real powerhouse, i still remember betaplayer ( made by picard ). The moment he started to use the 2700g for scaling etc, it made 640*480 movies fly. Pity it was almost never used for anything else ( very few games, or programs used it ).

icurafu:

QUOTE
Friends with 400MHz samsung ARM9 CPUs get a much greater performance output.


Found a little Spb Benchmark from the x50's xscale vs a samsung 400Mhz ( HP iPAQ rx3715 ), middel of the page: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Dell_Axim_X50.htm

From those numbers, the samsung got its ass kicked in the cpu department... *whoehoe*

mali:

WinCE on the Pandora is ofcourse always a major gain. Can we say TomTom?

 

[mali]

mali:

WinCE on the Pandora is ofcourse always a major gain. Can we say TomTom?

My dream config would be a multi boot setup with Angström, Maemo and CE. I've got Falk Navigator for CE lying around, so I would be very happy if I could also use it on my Pandora. Legacy and The Quest would be cool, too

 

[lardman]

QUOTE
WinCE on the Pandora is ofcourse always a major gain. Can we say TomTom?


The TomTom devices run Linux, so that might be an easier way to go. Search for something along the lines of "Zaurus AND TomTom", it's been done.

 

[emumanx]

Lets say we get a fully working Win CE on our Pans. I'd have to start working on some kind of sync system to go with it for fast and easy daily updates.

*Benjiro* Yes back when my X50v was ye'olde WM2003 se it was kinda fast. The WM6 was user made on the back of WM5 release. The WM5 upgrade is when it started using Flash as a none battery backed up O/S. Thats when it slowed down a tad because of it's small 128MB flash ram. You only ever lost program information that wasnt SAVED at that given time when the battery was dead. EG. an open MS word Doc.
But we are off topic here lol.

I would love WIN CE on the Pan to put to rest the PPC Hey maybe I could bluetooth sync to windows !! that would be sweet.

 

[AireTamStorm]

Atom gets about the same as a PIII in performance. In a handheld, this is largely unheard of speed- especially at the power consumption we're getting with it.
Atom utilizes HyperThreading, however, boosting its multitasking performance substantially over the PIII. Not to mention the additional multimedia instructions when it comes to decoding video...

As someone observed, an XBox had a 733MHz PIII in it. If we had a slightly more aggressive GPU, I'd be so bold as to remark on us being in the same class as it- but that it fits in the palm of your hand.
Well, our GPU is certainly a few classes above the Xbox GPU, and the XBox doesn't have a DSP capable of decoding 720p video : ). So I'd say (from a very rough comparison) that puts the Pandora above the XBox in terms of processing capabilities- and yes it fits in the palm of your hand

 

[benjiro]

QUOTE

Atom utilizes HyperThreading, however, boosting its multitasking performance substantially over the PIII. Not to mention the additional multimedia instructions when it comes to decoding video...



The Atom's HyperThreading is not bad, but its not something to write home about. Hell, one can say that the Pandora's OMAP3530 also support a form off multi tasking capability thanks to its DSP that can offload the work. I'm willing to bet, that the DSP can offer more then a 5 a 30% speed increase that the HyperThreading in the Atom can offer. Hell, the PSX emulator alone is loosing 30% off its speed because of a software implementation rotation/scaling. Something the DSP can take over without any sweat...

To me, the inclusion of HyperThreading was just something to make the cpu not totally suck. See some of the single threading benchies. Not exactly incredible. Imaging running that cpu on a single thread capacity with no HyperThreading. For a x86, its nice to see. But, there have been way more powerful implementations in intels Uxxx serie, if shrunk to the same size, and some more advanced power saving, kick the Atoms ass. I mean, what have they been smoking when they designed the Atom, instead of a out of order cpu, to a in order cpu. HyperThreading is nothing more then to hide the problems that this decision created. But thats just my opinion.

The Atoms introduction to the market is not even cold, and they are already talking about the "next" generation that will be even better, faster, bla bla bla ...

QUOTE

Well, our GPU is certainly a few classes above the Xbox GPU, and the XBox doesn't have a DSP capable of decoding 720p video : ). So I'd say (from a very rough comparison) that puts the Pandora above the XBox in terms of processing capabilities- and yes it fits in the palm of your hand



and it can do it for more then 8h+ on one charge. Lets see a shrunk xbox try that on a battery Hell, even Sony's PSP has horrible battery performance ( and it got only worse with the newer models ).

 

[icurafu]

Atom gets about the same as a PIII in performance. In a handheld, this is largely unheard of speed- especially at the power consumption we're getting with it.
Atom utilizes HyperThreading, however, boosting its multitasking performance substantially over the PIII. Not to mention the additional multimedia instructions when it comes to decoding video...

As someone observed, an XBox had a 733MHz PIII in it. If we had a slightly more aggressive GPU, I'd be so bold as to remark on us being in the same class as it- but that it fits in the palm of your hand.
Well, our GPU is certainly a few classes above the Xbox GPU, and the XBox doesn't have a DSP capable of decoding 720p video : ). So I'd say (from a very rough comparison) that puts the Pandora above the XBox in terms of processing capabilities- and yes it fits in the palm of your hand

Well, if you ignore performance, yes. And if you read about the wonderful drivers powerVR have for the atom, you can be nearly certain that all those OpenGLes2.0 features will be here from day one.

 

[hch]

I mean, what have they been smoking when they designed the Atom, instead of a out of order cpu, to a in order cpu.

well, even intels ceo didn't believe the atom was well designed - but alas they have such a huge run that they still can't satisfy all the demand.

what people always seem to miss is one simple fact: the atom is dirt cheap to produce. and it's fast enough. just look at its cornerstone data: 47 million transistors, 25mm^2 die space. that's about 6% of a core i7. now out of order is a huge thing. it might have easily doubled the necessary die space. and just to be sure, the cortex a8 has an in order core, too. i thought someone on the pandora forums might appreciate the 'raw cpu power is not everything' approach of the atom. actually, i for once would not try to speed up the atom as the top priority for the nect generation. i'd much rather try decreasing its tdp so that it too could run without fan.