Pocketsnes Scaling


b1ueskycomp1ex

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How hard would it be to implement scaling that does a little bit of cutoff? You know how normal old-school CRT televisions had overscan? what if there could be scaling that takes a few vertical lines from the top and bottom of the snes image so it can more easily scale into the wiz's screen size. Some games would work fine with this, wouldn't they? How hard would it be to pull something like that off?

EDIT: The snes resolution is 256x224, right? so that means if you remove 16 rows of pixels on the top and bottom of the display, you end up with a 4:3 screen that can then be scaled up to 320x240, right? Or alternatively, you could remove 8 pixels from the top and bottom and end up with a decent looking image that, while still not using the full screen, looks better than the current scaled screen. Just something I was wondering about, considering that there's either a big, squished screen, or a small, oddly-shapen screen.

TL;DR
- Cut off 16 pixels from the top and bottom
- stretch to screen, no odd aspect ratio.
- Possible?
 

Nixot

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b1ueskycomp1ex said:
TL;DR
- Cut off 16 pixels from the top and bottom
- stretch to screen, no odd aspect ratio.
- Possible?
Nah, what would happen if important stuff was in those areas, like in R-type 3? What's wrong with the unscaled screen? It's not like you have to squint to see it that it's so tiny. 
 

b1ueskycomp1ex

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Nah, what would happen if important stuff was in those areas, like in R-type 3?
- You don't use that type of scaling, and instead use the old scaling, or no scaling. See how quickly I solved that problem?

What's wrong with the unscaled screen?
- It's unscaled.

It's not like you have to squint to see it that it's so tiny.
- I don't remember lending you my eyes, either.

Scaling to fit the screen on old hardware sucks anyway because it makes it all blurry.
blurry - no. Bilinear filtering? - Yes. Bothers me? - No.

If you don't like it, why don't you try making your own emulator?
- Because I'm not a coder, and because there are highly skilled, very talented people on these boards that could most likely do something like that in a matter of MINUTES, rather than YEARS, in my case.

So, what have we learned today?

1 - Your post is not constructive
2 - Your post doesn't answer any of my questions
3 - You aren't helpful in the least bit

Thank you sir, for your completely unnecessary, rude post.

Kindly gtfo.
 

DaveC

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b1ueskycomp1ex said:
How hard would it be to implement scaling that does a little bit of cutoff? You know how normal old-school CRT televisions had overscan? what if there could be scaling that takes a few vertical lines from the top and bottom of the snes image so it can more easily scale into the wiz's screen size. Some games would work fine with this, wouldn't they? How hard would it be to pull something like that off?

EDIT: The snes resolution is 256x224, right? so that means if you remove 16 rows of pixels on the top and bottom of the display, you end up with a 4:3 screen that can then be scaled up to 320x240, right? Or alternatively, you could remove 8 pixels from the top and bottom and end up with a decent looking image that, while still not using the full screen, looks better than the current scaled screen. Just something I was wondering about, considering that there's either a big, squished screen, or a small, oddly-shapen screen.

TL;DR
- Cut off 16 pixels from the top and bottom
- stretch to screen, no odd aspect ratio.
- Possible?
Anything would be possible. I do think that this scaling option would be something that only you would want.

Why would anyone want to remove graphics if they didn't have to? You would take an image that is almost fullscreen vertically at a nice even 1:1 and stretch it leaving blocky ugly pixels where some lines had to be doubled. Then after making it look ugly you would chop off information reducing detail and losing resolution.

Maybe the DS would be a good handheld for you, the low res screen almost always needs an option to crop graphics off.

To me if someone was to improve SNES scaling they would just scale horizontally using the smooth Picodrive algorythm. Then it would be pretty much full screen and look fairly decent too without losing graphics.
 
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b1ueskycomp1ex

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Well, what I figured was that with those lines cut off, you would get an image with a 4:3 aspect ratio that could scale up to the 320x240 screen. And not all games need those extra lines, either. Geez.

"Why would anyone want to remove graphics if they didn't have to? You would take an image that is almost fullscreen vertically at a nice even 1:1 and stretch it leaving blocky ugly pixels where some lines had to be doubled. Then after making it look ugly you would chop off information reducing detail and losing resolution."

-You've got it backwards. My idea was to shave off some pixels on the top and bottom, which gives you a 4:3 image that can then be scaled up to 320x240 in some way. Like taking this at 256x224:
125168663193.jpg


and turning it into this at 256x192:
12516866616.jpg


to eventually end up with this at 320x240:
125168668542.jpg


So as to not distort what's on the screen by stretching into a different aspect ratio.

Zelda:
125168763795.jpg
 

DaveC

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b1ueskycomp1ex said:
Well, what I figured was that with those lines cut off, you would get an image with a 4:3 aspect ratio that could scale up to the 320x240 screen. And not all games need those extra lines, either. Geez.

-You've got it backwards. My idea was to shave off some pixels on the top and bottom, which gives you a 4:3 image that can then be scaled up to 320x240 in some way. Like taking this at 256x224:

Yes but when you "scale up" to get the aspect that is when it gets really ugly.

Making images in photochop doesn't count as that interpolates when you re-size, when you scale on the Wiz it will look like crap.
 
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xXJackXx

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i havn't had any issues with the appearance of the SNES when stretched to full screen. Yeah stuff looks a lil fatter at times, but 98% of the time I don't notice it on a screen so small.
 

b1ueskycomp1ex

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DaveC said:
Yes but when you "scale up" to get the aspect that is when it gets really ugly.

Making images in photochop doesn't count as that interpolates when you re-size, when you scale on the Wiz it will look like crap.

So, there's no way for the scaling on pocketsnes to use interpolation? =D
 
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DaveC

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b1ueskycomp1ex said:
DaveC said:
Yes but when you "scale up" to get the aspect that is when it gets really ugly.

Making images in photochop doesn't count as that interpolates when you re-size, when you scale on the Wiz it will look like crap.

So, there's no way for the scaling on pocketsnes to use interpolation? =D
Interpolation = CPU time = slower framerate. If you want to put up with choppy games then yes it is possible. The problem is SNES is slow as it is.
 
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b1ueskycomp1ex

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DaveC said:
b1ueskycomp1ex said:
DaveC said:
Yes but when you "scale up" to get the aspect that is when it gets really ugly.

Making images in photochop doesn't count as that interpolates when you re-size, when you scale on the Wiz it will look like crap.

So, there's no way for the scaling on pocketsnes to use interpolation? =D
Interpolation = CPU time = slower framerate. If you want to put up with choppy games then yes it is possible. The problem is SNES is slow as it is.

Well, considering that... without removing lines, if there was a scaler incorporated that DID use interpolation or some filtering of some sort, how much of a performance difference are we talking about at say, 800Mhz? rough estimate? >.>

Although, I doubt anyone would want to do it, just because everyone wants to knock the idea. =P

What about using the wiz's GPU for interpolated scaling? Could that be possible? =O
 
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renejr902

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i like the interpolation of the psp snes emulator and its made by gpu. So me too, i dont like the way the wiz snes emu scale to fullscreen. but its better than dont have it. i cant play a game unscaled on this small screen :)


Since a few years i ask myself the same question. Why the littlejohn ( nes emulator )for gp32 from yoyofr LOOK SO GOOD when full scaled to the gp32 screen. when any others handheld that full scaled nes emulator look crap.

in gp32 nes emulator. it have a option that you choose fast video mode and all the screen is full scaled and it look very good. impressive.


i have a lot of handheld. and i play each emulator with the best handheld scaled option.

so, when i play

Nes = i use my gp32 , full scaled look great.
Snes= PSP for rpg Wiz for others games. Rpg games look like crap on the wiz. For PSP I USE THE FULLSCREEN CLIPPED like said B1ueskycomp1ex you dont have all the screen completly BUT THE SCREEN LOOK SO GOOD. i dont have any problem with the missing part.
Genesis: Wiz or gp2x
Gamegear= i use sms32 emulator for gp32. and the pan view mode. i never seen a gamegear emulator scaled to fullscreen that look so good.
GB/gbc = PSP look awesome and GP32 look great too but no colors in gb games
GBA= wiz look good and psp look great in 4:3 scaled. fullscale in a wide screen mode is horrible.

For the Nintendo DS = i like the option of fullscreen, you miss some part of the snes, nes and genesis but all emus look great.
Unfortunately for genesis the missing part is too big. it difficult to see what will happen next. Nes emulator look great.excellent, but i never like this handheld, because it has 2 screen and i dont like that. But nes emulator look great EVEN if it miss a few part of the screen. and DSi has too much ghostling in nes emu.

i would like to have a option with over scale option like psp offer for snes emu and like the nes emu of the ds. ( i know the ds dont have the resolution of the nes and it was the only choice to scale the nes , but its look great.)
 

renejr902

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when i have to go, its a hard time choosing which handheld i will bring with me LOL , depending which emus i want to play.

Maybe with the pandora i will only have one handheld to care about all the emulators.

so snes is 256 x 224

so pandora will use 512 x 448 for snes. in that resolution it will look great and the screen is so much big, even if its not full scaled it will be great.
Is it right ?
 

b1ueskycomp1ex

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DaveC said:
Butchers! :blink:

You don't know! Those lines of pixels may or may not have molested your children and/or coworkers! They have to pay the ultimate sacrifice!

Also, interpolated scaling in pocketsnes. Can it happen? Will someone do it?

Please? =D I'll love and respect you forever!
 
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renejr902

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+1

yeah we really need some kind of interpolation or smoothing in snes emulator. The screen is so strange when im playing Final fantasy 4, i thought Cecil was eating his hat in battle field. or i just thought he was hit by a car. his armor is all smashed. i prefer to play final fantasy 2 with my psp in fullscreen clipped and smoothing for now. anyway on psp this game has 60fps too.


Please B1ueskycomp1ex and me will become your best friend :) we will make you a gold statue. we will lick your feet....


But i think someone must do something first about the fullscreen in nes emulator. i cant live anymore with the screen left side completly crazy
 

Exophase

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Chopping off the lines to make it 256x192 then scaling it to 320x240 isn't going to give you a correct aspect ratio. Scaling from 256x224 to 320x224 like DaveC will give you much closer to the original aspect ratio.

32 lines is a lot of missing data, I think you're underestimating this. The NTSC standard specifies 486 visible scanlines (per field) and the "safe action area" guideline is dictated to be about 90% of this, or ~218 scanlines at 60Hz. So SNES games already have a slight black border on a TV w/o overscan and most TVs will show most of the lines. Way more than just 192, usually. If that weren't the case then consoles with fixed line counts wouldn't bother with 224 on NTSC TVs, they'd have just picked 192 in the first place. It is true that a lot of Atari 2600 and SMS games are only 192 lines high, some PC-Engine games too, but TVs were even older and had worse borders then.
 

b1ueskycomp1ex

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I was already past butchering the screen and was sort of wondering about using interpolation during the scaling to make it look nice.
 
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