The Current State Of The Scene

timeslip posted on Apr 29 2004 at 01:09 PM said:
I mean christ! what a bunch of immature monkey licking assholes that seem to populate the boards
So how exactly do you define mature????
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the GP32 looks very appealing to me. I prefer the zodiac but I also like some gaming (my like for the zod is the size battery life and gorgeous screen for viewing pictures)

gp32 is small time in that its depends on homebrew. thats fine. it also have VERY good international support etc..

the zodiac is a different beast. I LOVE the hardware. I have almost no interest really in most of the games for it. so why do I want games ? different beasts remember that part ? different in that the zodiac WANTS (tapwave) to compete with the big boys (sega nintendo sony etc..)

unless it has some killer titles it is very likely going to die. if it dies people will not dev for it games or otherwise meaning my gorgeous hardware is nothing more than just gorgeous hardware :)

the signing process sucks too. :-(

I do have one question for you GP32 guys.

the GP uses Smart Media ? why i n the world did they pick the most useless dead memory format in existance ?

lousy support 128meg max ???

beyond that it is something to drool over and I do want one (I just love gadgets) and free is ALWAYS a good thing !! :)

Personally I wish there were more APPLICATIONS that supported (REALLY supported) the zodiac larger screen. my favorite zodiac program is 2sky. it really makes good use of the screen and with polish !!

Chris Taylor
A few points:

1) Yes the Zodiac scene is NOT as positive as the GP32 scene right now. Unfortunately. :( But as for maturity... Might wanna check some of the language used in the initial post of this thread, despite the point about the negativity being quite valid. I can only hope to see that change in the coming months.

2) Zodiac users expect more than GP32 users expect in terms of commercial software. GP32 is accepted as mainly a homebrew/emulation system. Zodiac users, in general, want more than emus & homebrew, they expect more commercial games because that's they were promised - that is likely the main source of the negativity.

3) GP32 BLU sounds great, but I have to wonder about battery life, especially using rechargeable AA's. IIRC my GP32 FLU only got around 1.5 - 2 hours on a set of rechargeable AA's (so I used to always carry an extra charged pair with me), and I can't imagine anyone not using rechargeables.

4) DaveC, rlyeh bought a Zodiac months ago and has tried dev'ing on it with GCC long before we approached him about getting him CW. Or didn't you know that? Funny how you know about the donation effort at ZG but missed the part about rlyeh having a Z2 for several months already, on his own. He may even have had a Zodiac before you did. We didn't do anything to "steal" rlyeh away from GP32, the entire notion is immature and plain dumb. But you like stirring the anti-Zodiac pot on this site from what I've seen, so go ahead, have fun. Stir that hate pot.
The zodiac community is still in infantcy, fighting to enhance their homebrew scene, all the while getting flak from other homebrew communities that dont want to see a handheld thats not theirs, succeed.

What do you expect them to do? Sit and wait while another scene gets all the good developers? Would you? No you wouldnt, you would do the same damn thing, you would do everything you can to entice the other developers to move to your platform . This is reality, this is how the world works.

As for the freeloaders out there, I find that the whole "Paying for homebrew games and emulators" mentality of the Zodiac community, the best thing about it! Paying for a product gives you rights, how many times have you said, or heard someone say "He will release a new version when its done, he makes this in his free time, for free, so you should be thankful"? How many times? Too many to count. Paying for a product, gives you the right to ask for updates, to ask for bugfixes, features, etc..., gives you the right to bitch and complain and request progress reports. You pay for those rights.

Not only does it give you rights, but it also is a huge incentive for the current developers to keep working on projects, or for new developers to get into the scene.

Honestly, I visited some of the Zodiac forums about a month back (when I was looking into buying one, the battery issue killed that idea though) and I was impressed. The developers give current progress and status reports, respond to feature requests, and generally answer a lot more questions. You know the current status of the scene, the developers post frequently (because these are potential customers!) so there is no worry about "Is so 'n so still working on that game/app/emu?" like we get here. This forum until recently was getting filled up with "Where is Rlyeh/Yoyo/etc... did he/they abandon us?" topics and posts. With the Zodiac, you pay for the insurance that the developer is going to keep developing.

And the games, even homebrew, that are being released, are for the most part, polished products, and they dont need to create competitions to force coders to start making / finishing up some projects. (although the recent gbax compo has zodiac in it)

In the few hours I spent scaning and reading posts, I really didnt see any that were negative, I am sure there are some, but there are some on these forums too, thats life.
Nice balanced answer Akuma. Personally I'm happy with my GP32 but if my Sony Clie dies I know which Palm based device I'll be replacing it with. Somehow I can't see a Zodiac replacing my GP32 though. It more likely to live happily side by side with it. However at the moment that's not a problem because my sony does everything I want from a PDA and until it dies I won't be getting a Zodiac. Well not unless they reduce the price huge amounts that is :)
The Zodiac is good. Denying it wont make it go away. If I had the cash, I'd get one to play with, course I would. There we go - nice and controversial. However, there's not way it'd make me put down my GP32! The GP32 scene is still way more vibrant in the Homebrew/emu sense, and the whole scene is still more friendly. Also, I'm so damn deep rooted in this community now, I would never want to leave :)

The Zodiac being a nice high-spec machine takes nothing away from the sheer greatness of the GP32 and the scene surrounding it.

skeezix posted on Apr 29 2004 at 08:23 PM said:
the Zodiac has been around a much shorter time
even in the gp32`s early days with the dodgy advertising from craig - Full emulation of SNES and GBA etc the community didnt sit around in the forums and bitch about it - we enjoyed what we had.

It called paitence which the zodiacs board members dont seem to have any.

But the Zodiac is a far sexier looking piece of kit - Lets be honest the GP looks like a cheap piece of crap, kinda like a fatter original GB - Bloody cream color!

Heres hoping the BLU comes in a few colors - andthing but cream!
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The one thing I love about the design of the GP32 is the shoulder buttons, they are PERFECT. They did it just right! They fit my hands like it was molded for them. Not even the SNES, PSX or GBA shoulder buttons do this for me.

The Zodiac does look much nicer, and its an overall better design, an analog pad thats set into the system so it wont snag or break off if you shove it in your pocket, purse, bag, whatever.

If they fix the battery issue, I will get a zodiac and it will sit side by side with my GP32. Not as a replacement, as a compliment.
the button layout reminds me of the wonderswan colour

lets facit nothnings going to be as good as this---------> gp32_console Beuty for a couple of years
Everyone keeps talking about the battery issue the Zodiac has. I am not completely sure which problem that would be. I think remembering something along the lines of "The Zodiac uses a special internal battery you can not replace"?
And speaking of bateries, my GP32 easily gets in 7 or 8 hours before I have to change the btteries or reload.

Back to Zodiac bashing again :p Well, not really. I played a Zodiac once and well, it is a nice thing. The buttons are nice. The whole look is nice. But... well, that's about it. Nice. I can play GB, GBC, NES, SNES, C64, Atari ST and a lot of other emulators on my GP32, for free, and most are really playable. Not fine polished, but really playable. That's all I'm asking for, and all I ever wanted. Zodiac can do most of that too. The difference is: The Zodiac is more expensive and you have to pay for most programs. Sure it may be more advanced than my GP32. But those are features I don't need. If someone thinks he can not live without anything the Zodiac offers, by all means, do grab one. I would not turn down a free one, but I would not pay for it.
Mosch posted on Apr 30 2004 at 03:11 AM said:
Everyone keeps talking about the battery issue the Zodiac has. I am not completely sure which problem that would be. I think remembering something along the lines of "The Zodiac uses a special internal battery you can not replace"?
The Zodiac has a custom propreitary battery. If, when it dies (the final death), because it will, you have to send your Zodiac to TapWave for replacement. Thats all find an dandy, as long as tapwave is still in bussiness and is still manufacturing this Zodiac's model battery.

Sure, someone will probably create an unofficial battery that you can hack into it if you really need too, but will those be arround when you need it? Should you buy a couple to keep as backups? What if you lose them? What if your battery dies in the middle of a trip? And no place to plug it in for a few hours? You know what I do in all of those cases with my GP32? I reach in my bag and grab a new set of AA"s, and im good to go.

If they deal with this issue (I doubt they will), then I will glady fork up $400 for a unit. If not, well then, not.
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I expect that's because of the higher price tag and the general upper class gearing of the zodiac. I get the impression that it's aimed at older professionals who want to pretend to be making notes in a business meeting. Those kind of people can afford to pay for emulators etc. Here we have people moaning about how they have to pay for gpcinema  :p.

Oh how I wish you were right. I've been with the Zodiac boards since Oct last year. I bought a Zodiac2 (excuse me for Fkn $400) I'm not saying I wasted my money because I love the thing I bring it with me every where I go. But I'm definetly not high class I only wish I were. My wife and I are barly making it by now that we had to buy a new car.
But I will have to agree with alot of what you guys are saying, the community has changed. They used to be a great buch of people back before 2004. Then more and more people started comming, and that is when it got bad. The early group was great, but a lot of the newer people are just horrid.
I have had my share of being pissy but I'll do that at just about every board once or twice :D
I'm just glad to see that the GP32 board hasnt changed.

I do apologize I've been out of the GP32 scene for some time as most of you probably don't even know who I am. But I just wanted to know what this BLU that you are talking about is. As a matter of fact it sounds like a different style GP32. I just got rid of my GP32 last week for a Turbo Express, but if there is a better GP32 I may invest back into it.
Techno posted on Apr 30 2004 at 12:35 PM said:
I have had my share of being pissy but I'll do that at just about every board once or twice :D
I'm just glad to see that the GP32 board hasnt changed.
Its already been said but worth pointing out again. Its not just zodiac owners that have bought their zodiac only to be letdown by the reality of the available software.

One of the main reasons for me buying the gp32 at the time was gbax`s `highly inventive` review stating full gba,mame and snes emulation.

Difference seems to be that we dont sit around all day bitching about it and enjoy what we have got!
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You know.. heres the real issue. Both units are good and both units are very different; the Zodiac is a high end expensive tool and game platform and GP32 is pretty much a homebrew only platform; the problem is the communities overlapped.. a lot of us have both, and those without both feel threatened for some reason. Its a question of.. when one platform comes out, why does it make someone feel like theirs is inferior, or has to go after people.. a strange phenomena.

GP32 folks should be happy they have another underdog brother to help fight the big guys; if Zodiac dies, it'll be because it had much higher aspirations than GP32; if GP32 dies, Zodiac folks should weep. I find it alarming when people diss one or the other (especially the GBA crowd who dont' barely know theres anything outside their unit); we don't like or want monopolies, we like companies who try and innovate and experiment. GP32 folks and Zodiac folks should both be proud of the small guy heritage both survive on.

We like our toys! Regardless of the form, keep them coming.

The GP32 scene is a great one; the Palm OS scene is a much larger one and has many subgroups because of it, and is a also a great one with a long history of great hacking (Palm OS is a gcc haven :), but remember this .. Palm OS (and Symbian) is one of the last frontiers where the small guy, homebrew or shareware alike, can make a difference. If you want to be able to code for a living or innovate then mobile platforms are about the last place, and thats Palm OS. You *cannot* make a living on GP32.

So this is why theres some shareware on Palm OS/Zodiac.. and its a good thing. Very high quality mobile software, and an immense homebrew scene. (The homebrew scene of Palm OS is *much* larger than GP32 is; the *Zodiac* scene is pretty small due to the US-only-sales of Tapwave :/)

So rejoice.. its all good; the GP32 scene is like the old school days we all love and newbies come to love; the PAlm OS scene is the frontier where the little guys have their fun.. its homebrew that is wideley available and accepted. This is a *great* thing. (ie: Palm OS Zire machine is whatm, like $150 new, and has 20,000 homebrew (mostly crappy ;) titles available for it..) This is cool stuff.

So don't feel threatened. We need to stop the GP32 and Zodiac bashing in both websites. I have both and make a living in Palm OS, but it breaks my heart to see GP32 folks trashing Zodiac and Palm OS, and the ZG folks trashign themselves ;)

Admit it... you guys are just jealous we (Zodiac folk) have more buttons than you do. [:

<3 Zodiac SNES

real gamers use the select to switch control schemes baby. :ph34r: