Use donation + half the cross upgrade money to speed queue cleaning up?

[rohezal]

I think we could get more cross upgrades and speed up cleaning the queue when we are using donations for it.

An upgrade costs 375€. Lets say we can give people who want to cross upgrade a discount of 176€ from donation cash. So they must pay 199€ for an upgrade to a giga pandora. It is for most people far more easy to get 199€ than almost 400€. And it would be a psychological effect, since they are "saving" some money (300€ (preorder) + 200€ = 500€ instead of 540€). I think a lot of people would do it. Paying 199€ for getting a better Pandora NOW, seems to be a good deal. Or use the Rebirth Edition Pandoras that are left (and give a bit more discount maybe 190€ donation cash). Tell the people that there only X units (ca. 15) with this account avaible. I think they will be sold in under a week.

Pros:

More people will cross update.

More people will think about cross update (which is important, as a first step. Some people will maybe crossupgrade even if there are no donations).

Cleaning the queue will speed up a lot (2x times).

Maybe some of the people who got a discounted unit will donate some money themself. If you are nice to people, some people are nice to you.

Cons:

We can only do this, when there is some money in the donation pot.

Some people will say "I allready paid for this, I won't pay again".

Some people can simply not afford to cross upgrade ( even discounted).

Some people will maybe wait for the next donations, before they cross upgrade, even if they could afford the full amount.

Modified version from the ask craig thread

 

[elwing]

I would seriously think about a cross upgrade in that case, but that wouldn't be fair at all to people who just cross upgraded,no?

through, on the same line of thinking why not offering a rebirth cross order for a discounted price, that would allow people to get their rebirth faster, use less donation money for each pandora and won't be unfair to current cross upgrade?

 

[rohezal]

I would seriously think about a cross upgrade in that case, but that wouldn't be fair at all to people who just cross upgraded,no?

Well fair is good, but hard to archieve. Some people are waiting for years, some were delivered way faster. Some people got rebirth units, some people classic units for the same price. Some people got rebirth units way faster than other people. I think we should try to get best solution for all (or at least most) people.

through, on the same line of thinking why not offering a rebirth cross or der for a discounted price, that would allow people to get their rebirth faster, use less donation money for each pandora and won't be unfair to current cross upgrade? 

Was my idea too. This way ED can get rid of the remaining rebirth units, which doesn't sell very well. I don't think there are enough donations for this. But if we can get enough donations / ED can sell enough stuff in dragonbox we could realy think about this. If people get a donated pandora (with a nice letter), they may even return a bit money to the donation pot.

Maybe use less discount, to discount more people, I think there is maybe a better amount. Maybe 50€ discount for the first 50 people? But thesere 325€... should be 76€ for the first 30 people -> 299€.

Disclaimer:

I don't have preordered a pandora and I don't own a pandora (just a Caanoo). I don't want to get myself something cheaper, I just want to help to clear the queues.

 

 

[Timstertoo]

I don't see how paying more then my initial order is an upgrade.

I'd be willing to pay €100 €150 for a 1GhZ upgrade and maybe €50 for a directly shipped rebirth edition.

 

[rohezal]

150€ would be almost enough for a ghz upgrade. If you split the cost equally between donations and money from upgrades it would be 187.50€ per cross upgrade for a ghz Pandora. Not sure if ED even wants to do this, but Timstertoo, would 188€ be better the 199€, or is it the same for you? Important question, number can make people buy things.

 

[Kumaki]

If you are GETTING more than your original order...then what is the problem?

Example...you ordered a CC unit.  You end up getting a ReBirth.  You got more than you ordered.  So it's an upgrade.

 

[Timstertoo]

If you are GETTING more than your original order...then what is the problem?

Example...you ordered a CC unit.  You end up getting a ReBirth.  You got more than you ordered.  So it's an upgrade.

The problem is that I'm fine with getting my original order. Also I also have a big problem with paying a HUGE amount more in total then anyone stumbling upon the Pandora site and ordering one now. Regardless of how much I understand how ED's hands are tied in that.

 

[ElPoco]

I'm like Timstertoo, I'd be willing to pay up to 150€ for an upgrade to a 1Ghz unit and up to 50€ to get my Rebirth faster.

It's not that I don't have the money, I'm just not willing to spend it for this. There are many ways I could spend 270€ that will make me happier than getting a 1Ghz Pandora now instead of getting a Rebirth at some point in the next two years.

I also agree with elwing that using half donation+half upgrade would be unfair to those who upgraded without the donation. I guess we could solve this by having those who pay the full upgrade get their unit sooner. I'd be fine with paying 150€ to get my 1Ghz unit once the rest of the queue has been processed (assuming it will at some point).

Another option I could accept would be to pay the full cost now (even if it's just for a Rebirth rather than a 1Ghz) and get refunded when/if the queue ends and the profits allow it. This way the pre-orderers get their Pandora sooner, for no extra cost for OP. In exchange for that, they accept the risk that they might not get all their money back, but that's a risk I can accept (and I trust ED enough to feel safe). I'm not sure if that's easy to do legally speaking.

 

[rohezal]

I'm like Timstertoo, I'd be willing to pay up to 150€ for an upgrade to a 1Ghz unit and up to 50€ to get my Rebirth faster.

The cost to make a rebirth are almost the same as to make an giga. In fact the are even 2€ higher. Why is the 150€ a hard limit? With 188€ you would pay have of the costs, ED needs to make the Pandora. Is it a psychological number? If yes this could be a problem.

I also agree with elwing that using half donation+half upgrade would be unfair to those who upgraded without the donation.

True but the queues should empty somtime.

I guess we could solve this by having those who pay the full upgrade get their unit sooner.

Yes of course. You can use the donation money, if there is donation money in the pot.

I'd be fine with paying 150€ to get my 1Ghz unit once the rest of the queue has been processed (assuming it will at some point).

I think it would be not so clever, to say "when only 100 people are left, they will sell the stuff half the price". Lots of people will try to become one of these 100 people and will avoid upgrading. Not sure how avoid this. Maybe made a lottery or offer it to the people with the longest waiting time first.

Another option I could accept would be to pay the full cost now (even if it's just for a Rebirth rather than a 1Ghz) and get refunded when/if the queue ends and the profits allow it. This way the pre-orderers get their Pandora sooner, for no extra cost for OP.

More money ED needs to pay back in the future, but in fact no costs. Maybe the best idea. Not sure if ED will do it, he can't know for sure, if he will sell enough Pandoras to give all the needed money back.

 

[ElPoco]

I don't have a hard limit at 150€ I'm open to negotiation, I can be persuaded to go up to 188€ if necessary. But 270€ is just too much.

More money ED needs to pay back in the future, but in fact no costs. Maybe the best idea. Not sure if ED will do it, he can't know for sure, if he will sell enough Pandoras to give all the needed money back.

The idea is that those who choose this solution accept that they might not get their money back. They have to trust ED that he'll do what he can to be able to give it, but I think that many of us do.

 

[elwing]

If you are GETTING more than your original order...then what is the problem?

Example...you ordered a CC unit.  You end up getting a ReBirth.  You got more than you ordered.  So it's an upgrade.

The problem is that I'm fine with getting my original order. Also I also have a big problem with paying a HUGE amount more in total then anyone stumbling upon the Pandora site and ordering one now. Regardless of how much I understand how ED's hands are tied in that.

I wasn't implying that everyone should pay more, I was just implying that they should add a "sponsorized" cross order for a rebirth unit that send directly... that would allow original preorder to pay a little extra to get their pandora faster while not costing a full pandora on the donation count... it's a kind of win-win solution... and I was not talking about forcing people to do that, in fact there wouldn't be enough money to do that...

 

[rohezal]

Maybe an even better idea, to avoid using donations (or too much donations):

ED must currently sell ca. 2x 1Ghz Pandoras for producing 1 Pandora (328€ profit, ca. 375€ for a new Pandora). So 164€ profit per Pandora. With a few accessoirs and classic Pandoras sold, ED might get half of the production price of a Pandora, when he sells a Ghz Pandora.

What about this: when ED sells 1 Ghz Pandora, a preorder customer pays the "other half" of the production price and gets a Giga Pandora. There is not enforcement of it, you can just say: when the next Ghz Pandora is sold, I will pay 199€ and will skip all people in the queue and get a Gigahertz Pandora now.

Maybe make it more fair for people who waited longer:

1 Pandora sold -> get Money from a queue skipper -> the next 2 Pandoras sold -> send 1 Pandora  without costs to the next preorder customer one in line -> 1 Pandora sold -> etc.

Just limit the skippers to 10 or 20 people at one time, to avoid having a "skipper queue".

If we are saying we have 300 preorders left we can reduce the amount of Pandoras to sell from: 600 (2 sells -> 1 new Pandora) to 450 (3 sells -> 2 new Pandoras). When ED sells 40 Pandoras a month these are: ca. 11 month instead of 16 month. And less Pandoras in general must be sold.

Maybe more are willing to accept this instead of donations And donations can be used to pay the pandoras for people who realy can't afford an upgrade.

EDIT: 150€ (or 149€) seems to be a magic number for some people. Maybe some people won't upgrade above it.

If there are a lot of them and nobody upgrades:  take 149€ from customer, 176€ from Pandora sells, 50€ from donation pot -> 375€ -> one Pandora. With 2500€ in the donation pot and 50 sold Pandoras, we can can ship 50 Ghz Pandoras to preorders this way. Only do it this way when a lot of people complain that 199€ are way to much and won't pay for becoming a skipper.

 

[Timstertoo]

If I get a 1GhZ I'll donate €150 to help move the queue or if I'm at the end as a thank you to ED and the investors.

If I get one straight away if I pay that amount first that would be a no brainer.

I won't donate for a rebirth when I get it as I feel that it's the very least I should get. But I'd pay €50,- to have it sent today though.

I think that there is a number where more pre orders are willing to put in an extra amount one more time and it will give ED and the investors more (well deserved) profit at the end. So I'd say they need to find the funds to finance that. Any unit sent now with an additional payment means more money on the bank over sending without an additional payment. Liquidity now is the key to more profitability later.

Also more units out there is more ambassadors thus more potential sales.

Edit: more money for instant gratification that is, so units sent straight away in case that isn't ckear

 

[rohezal]

I would be very curious to hear the opinion from different preorder customers and ED to this idea.

 

[Grench]

I'm luckily not in the pre-order queue.  I am, however, a donor.

I'm not opposed to this.  The only drawback I see is that it is one more thing that ED has to keep track of.

 

[elwing]

the tricky part would be to balance everything to be attractive while being correct with people who just ordered a cross upgrade, and not grow a too big queue of upgrader that need to wait on donations... but it seems you can get some win-win situation...

 

[Grench]

I think we could get more mileage from the donor moneys if the subsidy were to start much lower than 175 EUR though.

Lets start with a pool of money - say 2000 EUR?  We've proven that we can raise that.

Week 1.  50EUR donation pool subsidy for cross-upgrades.  If 40 people take the offer - then the pool is depleted and this offer is done.

Week 2.  If 40 people did not take the offer from week 1, then increase the offer to 75EUR until the fund is depleted.

Week 3.  If there are still funds left - which I highly doubt there would be - go to a 100EUR subsidy until the fund pool is depleted.

The 175EUR per unit subsidy that the OP stated is just way too rich an offer - there is no way we'd be able to raise the 10K EUR that would be required to make it work.

Thoughts?

 

[rohezal]

Grench: this is a good idea. Lets combine it with the sales idea (a sold ghz pandora makes a profit of 164€).

375€ (price to produce a pandora) - 164€ (profit from a freshly sold ghz unit) -  50€ (money from donations) -2€ (sold SD Card / Carry Case) = 159€ for a brand new ghz pandora.

There are over 2500€ in the donation pot. This means when ED sells 50 ghz units they queue would be reduced by 50 preorder customers (instead of 25). ED sells about 40 ghz pandoras a month (+20 classic pandoras).

If you announce this offer (limited for 50 people, first come, first serve), I think it would completly booked in a few days. This means they queue can be shrinked by 50 people next month. Would be very great if this could work.

EDIT: I see the donation says: 2700€ to send 10 preorders to the customers. Is the production 270€? Sorry if I took the wrong number all the time.

 

[Grench]

I see what you're trying to do - but the fact remains that the profit from freshly sold at retail units is already spoken for under the current agreement between Craig & Ed.

The 2700 EUR under the current donation drive needs to fund 10 Pandora shipments to existing pre-orders.  That is the basis used for raising the money, that is what it should be used for.  Those units should ship tomorrow - without question.

Now, for the -next- fundraiser, raising money to encourage cross-upgrades...  THAT has a solid deal of merit to it.

If, for the -next- fundraiser, we were to make a goal of 2000EUR with the objective of providing 50EUR subsidies to anyone who wants to cross-upgrade from CraigIX's queue to ED's - I think that is brilliant.

The big issue I have with what your math rohezal is that you're trying to divert funds that are already named/dedicated under other agreements and statements.  If we're going to do this cross-upgrade promotion funded by donations, then it has to be money raised specifically for that purpose.

50EUR should be enough to encourage a few people to cross-upgrade - which frees up profit from unit sales to ship other units.  It does have the potential to daisy chain a bit in it's effect.

 

[rohezal]

The 2700 EUR under the current donation drive needs to fund 10 Pandora shipments to existing pre-orders.  That is the basis used for raising the money, that is what it should be used for.  Those units should ship tomorrow - without question.