What are my options?


PolarIce

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Nov 20, 2013
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Hi,

I haven't really followed this too closely, so I'm here to find out what I can do at this point. Here is the timeline of most of what I've done:

March 2009: I ordered a pandora (+ accessories) from openpandorasales@gmail.com (which I guess is "from Craig").

March 2010: Added tv out cable to my order (+ paid for it)

August 2012: I paid for an upgrade to a 1GHz pandora, under the impression that this was a way to get my unit quickly.

December 2012: Of course I didn't receive my unit in the time period I was initially promised, so I requested a refund

May 2013: I emailed for an update on the situation, and I was given a link to some survey. The link gave me an error message and they were unable to fix it apparently

About a week ago, I emailed openpandorasales@gmail.com again asking about what I can do, and got no response. At this point, I've sunk about $800 into this and, not only do I have nothing to show for it, I'm not even sure what my options are. Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated.
 

Askarus

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That's pretty bad.

The only person that can help you is EvilDragon.

As you missed the survey (thanks to Craig's broken Link) I don't know if there's a way to proof that you actually ordered a Pandora.

If you can proof that you did preorder then there is still hope for you to get your Pandora via donations.

I thought everyone who upgraded to Giga in Craig's list got his Pandora already.

Something went wrong with your order.

Contact SvulDragon/DragonBox.de.
 

WizardStan

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August 2012: I paid for an upgrade to a 1GHz pandora, under the impression that this was a way to get my unit quickly
You should have received it. According to EvilDragon's records (or according to him what his records say) is that everyone who did the 1GHz upgrade has received it. If you haven't then it either means it was shipped and lost in the mail (sucks, but can happen) or the paperwork between Craig and ED was lost and it was never sent. If I were to make an educated guess, when you requested your refund Craig removed your name from the "to be sent a Pandora" list and into the "To be refunded sometime between now and never" list.Shoot EvilDragon a message and hopefully it'll all get sorted out.
 

Hồng Thất Công

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You have 2 options:


1) Talk to EvilDragon to see what he can do for you.


2) See option 1.
 
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dooble

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You could take legal action against openpandora ltd, which is craigs company. ED is openpandora GmbH.
Likely less good going to OP LTD.  I received copies of OP LTD being struck off paperwork.  This the company is folding. In the text of the email it noted they did not have enough money to even liquidate.
 

_jr_

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If I wouldn't want to pay you anything I'd claim that, too.
 

comradekingu

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Doesnt seem to me like OP ltd has ever posted numbers in the red. http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-4#entry290381

I dont know how many debts craig actually take on officially or if he factors them in, but nonetheless.

Company will not be able to fold when there is a legal inditement to its name, which now is the case. http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-7#entry291108

Sounds to me like craig wants out without paying for it, or splitting the assets. He certainly don't want his books checked i assume. His preorder customers cant have been listed as creditors, because then he couldnt have posted those numbers, nor initating the process of folding on his depth. Then again i have _no clue_. And there is certainly no lack of dubious claims from that company. Given the lack of details and utter silence im thinking we havent seen the last, which is good.

Craig and family has a long line of failed companies (and accounts) behind them, with the recent failure of icp2 i think its safe to say at least something certainly is and has always been wrong.
 
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Grench

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Hi,

I haven't really followed this too closely, so I'm here to find out what I can do at this point. Here is the timeline of most of what I've done:

March 2009: I ordered a pandora (+ accessories) from openpandorasales@gmail.com (which I guess is "from Craig").

March 2010: Added tv out cable to my order (+ paid for it)

August 2012: I paid for an upgrade to a 1GHz pandora, under the impression that this was a way to get my unit quickly.

December 2012: Of course I didn't receive my unit in the time period I was initially promised, so I requested a refund

May 2013: I emailed for an update on the situation, and I was given a link to some survey. The link gave me an error message and they were unable to fix it apparently

About a week ago, I emailed openpandorasales@gmail.com again asking about what I can do, and got no response. At this point, I've sunk about $800 into this and, not only do I have nothing to show for it, I'm not even sure what my options are. Any help at this point would be greatly appreciated.
You're probably SOL.

As you noted, you requested a refund in December 2012. This moved you from the orders list to the 'people Craig owes money to' list. You no longer have a spot in the Pandora queue. You lost that when you gave up hope and asked for a refund.

Craig took your money for your Pandora pre-order. That money may or may not have been legitimately used in production costs.

Craig took your money for an upgrade to 1Ghz - and didn't send any of it to ED for the actual production of said unit. This may or may not be theft.

When you canceled your order and asked for a refund, did you get any acknowledgment from Craig or his company detailing how much he/they owed you? Not that it will do you any good, but it's a point of curiosity.

Now, if you could somehow contact Craig then convince him to move your order from his debt pile to orders pile, then convince him to contact ED to say that you were left off the original lists of orders in error, then if it is within ED's good graces to do so, you could in theory get added back onto the list of unfulfilled Craig's store orders to be fulfilled if funds allow. Or, at that point, you could cross upgrade for more $$$ or even partial-cross-upgrade for $250 or so and get one subsidized by donations. Although the donations have shipped dozens of Pandoras, they are hardly a dent in the hundreds in Craig's backlog.

In no way will you be likely to get an actual cash refund for what you paid in. That ship sailed with Craig and your money.

If you still want a Pandora, it will likely cost you -more- to get it. The -last- run of Pandora consoles is coming up. If you still want one, better buy it outright from ED or get your cross-upgrade worked out.

If you're upset with this, which would be appropriate, you will find sympathetic ears but little else here. Your real issue is with Craig and his store in England, and he doesn't visit, or at least post, here anymore.
 

hedwards

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If I wouldn't want to pay you anything I'd claim that, too.
Yes, but filing paperwork and doing an investigation is not exactly free. By filing paper work you're betting that there really is money that the limited has and is lieing about. Which I suppose is possible, but unless they have money that you're legally entitled to, you're likely to spend a large sum of money and get nothing in return. And any money that the limited might have, would then be spent providing the information that would be required to make a determination. Which if he really doesn't have, he wouldn't be required to spend.

The situation sucks all around, but I have to see any evidence that the money is just sitting there waiting for Craig to claim it. More likely his end of things was massively mismanaged to the point where he probably doesn't even have the money. Trying to transfer money from his limited to him, would likely be all sorts of illegal at this stage.

I get that people are pissed off about all of this, but the massive conspiracy theories have gotten rather ridiculous. There are tons of unanswered questions, and yet the subset that people focus on are the ones that lead to the conclusion that he defrauded people and is sleeping on piles of cash. Which is rather unlikely.
 

comradekingu

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Craig and jackelyn have money, they have been dumping stock in various channels for some time now. None of the profits have gone to anything legitimate. That much is a proven and known fact.

Legally his company owes you whatever you paid for. It costs 35euro outside of england to file a claim. Its even easier if you are within britain.
 
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optional106

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Hi, I am also in the same boat, What can I do ?

Paid and ordered in March 2009 whilst in UK, and now living and working overseas !
Filled in the survey ( asking for refund ) but no reply.


Also did not get a copy of the " Leaving Email "  from the other thread, so am wondering if this was intentional or not ?
Its pretty bad to only stumble on the email browsing the forums a week later....
 

Are we a part of the official numbers for Open Pandora Ltd numbers or not ?
They should have my email details as I used to email Jacquelyn back when she replied for updates, but obviously not had a reply for a long time.
 

Is there a sticky / guidelines for the proper protocol for course of action fro old pre-orderers ? 
 

sebt3

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Is there a sticky / guidelines for the proper protocol for course of action fro old pre-orderers ?
Sure, that's very simple :1) You wont get any refund from craigx by now (well that's the case since at least over a year)

2) ED offer you to get a pandora (CC or 1Ghz) for a discounted price if you can show your order number from craig (get in touch with him)

EDIT:

3) If you're in the UK, http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14913-openpandora-ltd-uk-struck-off-email/page-7#entry291108 (but your hope here should be close to 0)
 
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comradekingu

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Please start a kickstarter to fund your legal expences. I will contribute. The irony will be lethal.

Edit: Or maybe it fits indiegogos guidelines, come to think of it.
 
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PolarIce

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I have contacted EvilDragon, and he is helping me. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
 
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