WiFi mysteries resolved once and for all — Power saving is clearly the culprit!


PowerGod: Your reported experience seems all too familiar, and matches with my initial report, if you read it carefully.

1) The "power off" command only takes effect ~30 seconds after you issued the command. If you immediately afterwards start a connection you will only get the usual ~60/KB/sec. You have to keep the pause inbetween.

2) Because of the "suicidal tendencies" of the powersaving ("cuts itself off"), the other side has to provide a very continuos connection, otherwise WiFi will "cut in" (this is why you experienced different speeds for different network protocols and situations).
 
I found that sudo iwconfig wlan0 power off rate 54M, together with the removal of the metalic tape shorting the antena (http://boards.openpa...ape#entry195208) have helped a lot
When you buy a refurbished classic Pandora from ED now is the wifi metalic tape already removed?
Yes.

If they come from Global Components they use new housings.

If I build them I also take care if the metallic tape. I even open the lid and check if it's on the right place when I take some old housing.

Don't worry about that.

99,9% it's good.

Most units won't pass the wifi test (especially Classic ones) if the metallic tape is above the wholes.

:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just for the record: Pandoras without the metal tape issue nevertheless have miserable WiFi. So that no-one thinks that once the metal tape is fixed WiFi is all fine. No it doesn't. It only works flawlessly if the powersaving is disabled. Which itself causes high power drain, which then destoys the Pandora's otherwise good battery endurance.

And its also not very user-friendly: The powersaving setting is forgotten each time (after each reboot and each wifi-toggling, those script should be updated to have an option to regard the powersaving setting). And the toggling takes about 30 seconds compared to only few seconds on average smartphones. And occassionally the keychain asks for the credentials, although it should have them. So honestly: WiFi on the Pandora is a PITA. I basically use it only as a offline gaming device. Using it as a networking device is very unhandy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
^

No.

I never messed around with any wifi power save stuff (so it's enabled I think).

I use it every day with Firefox (which is a heavy and slow browser on Pandora).

It's not as fast as my Laptop but fine for me.

If you don't mind waiting 1-2 seconds for a page on the boards to load it's absolutely OK.

Use Arora or Baby Panda or Midori and you get good speed.

Only downloading big files is a problem but that's a job for ethernet then.
 
I agree with Askarus. I never had any problem (well, apart from my first pandora, but that was a blain broken wifi chip). 
 
^ @Askarus: Sorry, as much as I like you, but this is pure propaganda. Absolutely not matching with the experiences of 3 Pandoras I had.

(My initial post reports that en detail, and many other users confirmed it, and also devs confirmed it technically (among them notaz) )

The Pandora HAS a WiFi problem!

Talking it nice will not solve it. Trying to fix it technically may will fix it. Devs already gave hints on how to possibly solve it (keyword: "re-calibration" !)

And for that reason I ping'ed this thread again after 2 months of silence.

In the hope that someone meanwhile has done or will do something about it! The state of WiFi a disgrace to the Pandora project!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Um...seriously? You have experience of bad wifi on the pandora. I have experience of good wifi. That makes my experience propaganda???
 
As I said for downloading big files it's much slower than ethernet.

So there IS room for improvements.

Also big and bad programmed websites take pretty long to load (Search for images on Google for example and you'll know what 'I mean).

For normal use like browsing the boards, checking mails and do some quick search on the internet it's great.

Also don't forget the processor. Pandora is no dual core 1.5 GHz A9 processor.

Most of the big websites and slow downs are also limited by the processor. Pandora can't show those sites with flash advertisements and ad-ons in one second because it needs too much CPU power.

Don't blame wifi here.

Fore pure data to download it's much faster if you use ethernet but not for websites. Maybe a little but not much.

I use my Pandora every morning in bed to check the boards.

Never had a problem with speed.
 
Of course simply putting one experience against some-one else's (mine against yours) would be blunt! I would never do this!

Therefore I had taken the effort of weeks together woth _wb_ developing a proper monitoring tool, and then again weeks over which I collected empirical data to generate my report & observations.

And after the initial one-liner of a primitive cynical provocateur, people, among them the very core HW/SW devs (!), very much appreciated my report, because it was the first of its kind, with the necessary detail and database!

Read (the initial post with LOADs of supplied data + the technical confirmations of devs after then).   THEN post. Thanks.
 
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate to see this thread alive again as I also see room for improvement.

It simply doesn't feel THAT bad for me.

It's slower but not unusable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, porg, I have read, and like Askarus I do appreciate the work that has gone into it and the possibility that it might get better.

However, exaggeration in neither direction is helpful - Neither unfounded optimism nor frantic panic. 

You claim 

Just for the record: Pandoras without the metal tape issue nevertheless have miserable WiFi. [...] So honestly: WiFi on the Pandora is a PITA. I basically use it only as a offline gaming device. Using it as a networking device is very unhandy.
...and me and Askarus say "No, it is not that bad, at least not with all pandoras". This observation, you call "Propaganda"? Which I understand as you meaning that we're not telling the truth?

Of course simply putting one experience against some-one else's (mine against yours) would be blunt! I would never do this!
Well, you just did. 

Calm down. Keep up the good work. But it isn't necessarily so that other people must agree with you or be lying propagandist. We might just be a bit more lucky with our pandoras, youknow?
 
Calm down. Keep up the good work. But it isn't necessarily so that other people must agree with you or be lying propagandist. We might just be a bit more lucky with our pandoras, youknow?

Maybe we simply have a different feeling.

What's good for us (Moxie and Askarus) might be too slow for you (porg).

Same with emulators, some call it playable some don't.
 
Usually I'm very patient & open for discussion, but on this issue, we are way beyond that point !!!

I am fed up of wasting my time with "bla bla bla" hearsay posts, NOW that late in the process!

At the beginning input like this was valuable to get a broad impression. But meanwhile all options ARE already on the table.

This is a professional thread. I only want substantiated posts here.

Preferable solutions. Further reports only if substantiated! No bla bla noise.

Thanks for your understanding.

@Askarus: To prove my point: Here is how I falsify EVERY of your claims:

As I said for downloading big files it's much slower than ethernet.

For normal use like browsing the boards, checking mails and do some quick search on the internet it's great.
NO NO NO!!! The issue already manifests itself for very small connections. In fact: For the troubled models (2 Classics, 1 Rebirth, all affected in my case) particularly the small connections were the troubled ones!!! Because, once the connection has overcome a certain critical point (see report), and this is the case only with LONG and SPEEDY connections (i.e.: big downloads, continuous streams), it then can sustain the speed. The powersaving cannot suicide the connection once it has reached that critical point (data amount + speed). But before that (and this is exactly the case with rather data extensive protocols such as ordinary web browsing, email, multi player gaming) the powersaving CUTS OFF the connection, before it even has a chance of using it! Ok, got it!  The exception you experience is very likely, because you use the Pandora with one of very FEW WiFi routers, with which it works luckily flawlessly, but with the majority of routers, the powersaving works rather badly, as reports from multiple people indicated.

Also big and bad programmed websites take pretty long to load (Search for images on Google for example and you'll know what 'I mean).

Also don't forget the processor. Pandora is no dual core 1.5 GHz A9 processor.

Most of the big websites and slow downs are also limited by the processor. Pandora can't show those sites with flash advertisements and ad-ons in one second because it needs too much CPU power.

Don't blame wifi here.
I never criticized into this direction! The processing of the content, is an entirely different issue, absolutely unrelated to the aforementioned WiFi connection problems!
 
Of course simply putting one experience against some-one else's (mine against yours) would be blunt! I would never do this!
Well, you just did. Calm down. Keep up the good work. But it isn't necessarily so that other people must agree with you or be lying propagandist. We might just be a bit more lucky with our pandoras, youknow?
If 3 out of 3 Pandora's WiFi did not work, this statistic is beyond "simply bad luck" and the assumption that the problem is rather general is fit!

Don't you agree? Once ok. Twice maybe. But 3 times — that ain't coincidence! Your common sense (and your basic statistics course) will tell you that!

Maybe we simply have a different feeling.

What's good for us (Moxie and Askarus) might be too slow for you (porg).
Again: This is NOT a subjective issue. I am not talking about 2-3 seconds of patience. Not 10-20 secs. Not 1 minute.

I am talking about waiting FOREVER. Understood?

F O R E V E R !!! As in "I have to hit reload 20 or 30 times over the duration of 10 minutes, and maybe ONCE, if I am lucky, I will witness the complete loading of a website". But only if I am lucky.

Sorry, but from your comments, I cannot really belief, that you READ my report (because it mentions exactly what I described in the last paragraph, among much more), but have to assume you just SCANNED it.
 
I do react rather badly to people telling me what I should and shouldn't say. Particularly if they are at the same time implying that I'm lying. Or when they simply assume stuff (you have not looked systematically, you are only using a single wifi router, and other things they have absolutely no way of knowing) and then pretend that those assumptions are true and criticize from their own imagination.

"Well, you have one pandora and are a lying and unsystematic slacker, whilst I have three that I have scientifically researched. Therefore I win, get to call you a propagandist who spreads hearsay, and gets to decide that you cannot say anything more on the subject".

I will not write more on the subject tonight, because that would not end well. But I am not at all happy.

EDIT: Oh, I admit I didn't read properly in the beginning of the report. Apparently, you haven't tested three pandoras, you have tested one, and have anecdotes of two. My bad.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Moxie & Askarus: From how I got to know you on these forums, I know you are gentlemen!

I used the word propaganda towards Askarus, merely because as he is involved with OP GmbH (doing repairs there), he is more likely to be partisan.

Also to him the word "propaganda" was not fair! Propaganda would be the deliberate spreading of false info. That's not the case, as you are both gentlemen.

What I was angry about, was simply getting "but for me it works fine" comments, for the aforementioned reasons:

all options are long on the table, now time for substantiated posts only!

I am recalling my accusation of propaganda! I hope that honor could have got restored! Sorry!

And now I rephrase my thread reanimation:

  • Has any developer made significant improvements concerning WiFi? (Correcting the powersaving mis-calibration)
  • Or any other user with some substantiated reports?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I can't anymore reach the speed I got yesterday... the conditions are exactly the same... I tried different times to reconnect to the network, I tried waiting before transferrig data, and tried a big transfer just after the connection... tried disabling power save after a while and immediatly after connection... but I always reach 60 MB/s...
 
ehm... it just started to go at 768 KB/s but I didn't disabled power save this time... seems like I'm able to reach this speed only after a lot of reconnections
 
Back
Top