COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic


λ the β-Redex Reducer

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Yes the definition of vaccine in my oldish chambers dictionary specifically defines it as a preparation containing dead of dying vriruses or bacteria.

In other words, if it walks like a vaccine, swims like a vaccine and quacks like a vaccine then it's a vaccine.
The problem is that all the research and propaganda on vaccines was about vaccines according to the old definition. mRNA injections are something new and are experimental. Whether they walk, swim, and quack like a vaccine on the long term we have yet to see because they have not been tested like a vaccine.

But English is not a prescriptive language, so definitions are free to evolve when the situation changes.
Evidently it is, seeing how easy it was to prescribe us the new definition of "vaccine". Seems like you are confusing the natural slow changes in language with the prescribed changes that got pushed on us by a small group of organisations. The change to the definition of "vaccine" was started by the government and mRNA injection vendors. They started wrongly using the word and since most people had no idea that they were misusing it so most people just went along with it. In other words, this change was planned ahead of time. It was a presciptive change. And it confuses people because now people think that all the old literature about vaccines applies to the mRNA injections, which it does not. And that is the problem. Language is now used to confuse, while language is actually supposed to be used to inform.

The measures influenced me, just not the virus.
 

levi

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The problem is that all the research and propaganda on vaccines was about vaccines according to the old definition. mRNA injections are something new and are experimental. Whether they walk, swim, and quack like a vaccine on the long term we have yet to see because they have not been tested like a vaccine.
Yes, we've all learned some things about vaccines since the start of this epidemic. For one thing I used to think they were like silver bullets, 100% combatting whatever lurgy they were made to combat, but it turns out they never worked like that. As it turns out the numbers floating around for these new vaccines are an order better than the numbers that preexisted for MMR or BCG vaccines, at least this far in.

Evidently it is, seeing how easy it was to prescribe us the new definition of "vaccine". Seems like you are confusing the natural slow changes in language with the prescribed changes that got pushed on us by a small group of organisations. The change to the definition of "vaccine" was started by the government and mRNA injection vendors. They started wrongly using the word and since most people had no idea that they were misusing it so most people just went along with it. In other words, this change was planned ahead of time. It was a presciptive change. And it confuses people because now people think that all the old literature about vaccines applies to the mRNA injections, which it does not. And that is the problem. Language is now used to confuse, while language is actually supposed to be used to inform.
That's a maybe. I am certainly aware how mRNA vaccines differ from the old cowpox vaccines and the likes, but maybe I'm better educated than the average man. It's really no skin of my nose if you call them mRNA injections rather than vaccines, although I suspect you have difficulty believing that these new things do the same things as the old things just that little bit better. It's true that the long term prognosis hasn't been studied at all yet, but it's made it through over 18 months now and it's not gone wrong yet, and to be honest I have a little difficulty in imagining how it can go wrong from where we are now.
 

FBnil

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In other words, if it walks like a vaccine, swims like a vaccine and quacks like a vaccine then it's a vaccine.
So would a vitamines cocktail injection be a vaccine? (improves health!) And a water+salt injection (plascebo) injected with a siringe... also be vaccine? (because, yes, plascebo's work)



but it's made it through over 18 months now and it's not gone wrong yet
Oh, how blind are you to the scientists, doctors and ex-CEO's of pharmaceutical companies that say otherwise. Draco Malfoy told me to tell you that there is a new subclassification in the MudBloods: ClotBloods.
 

levi

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So would a vitamines cocktail injection be a vaccine? (improves health!) And a water+salt injection (plascebo) injected with a siringe... also be vaccine? (because, yes, plascebo's work)
No because none of these injections would aid you if you were unfortunate enough to become infected with the delta covid-19 virus. They will make you fitter if you're short of vitamins, but not any more capable to resist the ravages of covid-19. And I'm not sure the placebo affect is functional if your lung lining is being ripped apart by a virus to be honest.
 

ElPoco

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They also don't train your immune system to defend against a specific pathogen, so they aren't vaccines by any commonly agreed definition of the term.
 

FBnil

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And I'm not sure the placebo affect is functional if your lung lining is being ripped apart by a virus to be honest.
By that time the vaccine also would not work. That's like putting on a seatbelt after being in a car crash. Don't belittle the placebo effect either:

so they aren't vaccines by any commonly agreed definition of the term.
and that's the point also for the mRNA "vaccine". The WHO just changed the definition and there was no "common agreement". Proof's on you.
 

Askarus

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What I don't like is how German government makes false promises all the time.
1. As soon as everybody as an offer to get the vaccine we can remove all rules
-> Did not happen
2. When 80% of all people are vaccinated we can remove all rules
-> Now 80% of all grown ups are vaccinated, still masks are required

How long do they want to keep up those rules?

I have a seminar at University tomorrow.
We have the 3G rule, so you need at least a negative test to get in.
Still they want us to wear masks the whole day.
WTF, why???
I suppose there is not a single not-vaccinated person in the room.

Today I was at a restaurant.
On their seats people did not wear masks.
People entered and left the restaurant frequently.

So why on earth must we wear a mask in a seminar of 20 people when at a restaurant we must not.
If those 20 people meet at home they are not required to wear a mask.

I simply don't get the logic behind that all.
We're save guys, most people got their vaccine.
Why isn't the vaccine enough to get back all freedom, including the freedom of not needing to wear a mask?
 

Phlyra

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What I don't like is how German government makes false promises all the time.
1. As soon as everybody as an offer to get the vaccine we can remove all rules
-> Did not happen
2. When 80% of all people are vaccinated we can remove all rules
-> Now 80% of all grown ups are vaccinated, still masks are required

How long do they want to keep up those rules?

I have a seminar at University tomorrow.
We have the 3G rule, so you need at least a negative test to get in.
Still they want us to wear masks the whole day.
WTF, why???
I suppose there is not a single not-vaccinated person in the room.

Today I was at a restaurant.
On their seats people did not wear masks.
People entered and left the restaurant frequently.

So why on earth must we wear a mask in a seminar of 20 people when at a restaurant we must not.
If those 20 people meet at home they are not required to wear a mask.

I simply don't get the logic behind that all.
We're save guys, most people got their vaccine.
Why isn't the vaccine enough to get back all freedom, including the freedom of not needing to wear a mask?
You might want to look at England as to why it’s not a good idea to remove the mask mandate (and yes, I agree, it’s illogical to have it in a half-arsed manner but that’s still better than nothing) and assume you’re safe just because X% of adults have been vaccinated...
 

levi

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Today I was at a restaurant.
On their seats people did not wear masks.
People entered and left the restaurant frequently.
It's hard to eat and drink with a mask on. If I'm carrying water on a long walk and I need to replenish my fluids I generally rip the mask up to leave the nose bridge in place, but that generally blocks my vision, which I could imagine might be more of an impediment in a social setting, and might not work if your a picky eater.
 

pyrat

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What I don't like is how German government makes false promises all the time.
[...]

How long do they want to keep up those rules?
[...]

I simply don't get the logic behind that all.
We're save guys, most people got their vaccine.
Why isn't the vaccine enough to get back all freedom, including the freedom of not needing to wear a mask?
Dear Askarus I think just about the opposite of you (the virus is more harmful and the vaccines are less effective than said, and masks and all sort of measures are more needed than enforced),
but we agree that the policy has no glimmer of logic, not even tries to. And I think we agree that the policy is effective in selling vaccines. Did you read telepolis ?

I'm afraid the dishonesty we're all grown used to (not only about vaccines or private medicine, it's just the same in any service or product) is worse than the side effects or the lack (or rather eventual lose) of effectivity of the vaccines, or injections or whatever.
The vaccines are still experimental, and I'm too ignorant to comment on them, but my gut feeling is that they're worse that the official discourse and still very good considering the tight time scientists have had.Hats off to the vaccine developers. But overselling them kills their credibility.

For example. Janssen was emergency authorised as a one shot vaccine. I haven't looked but I think the first dose ever was given maybe 11 months ago or so ?
Now I've heard people who got one dose of Janssen are told to have a second one of mRNA after 3 months from their Janssen. If they were not susceptible to clots they may still catch miocarditis. I've seen a lot of news stories about the effectivity of vaccine cocktails. They didn't even speak of the safety (in the press, I guess it's mentioned in the scientific literature, and I don't think authorities would propose it if proved unsafe, unproved safe might be political par for the game though).

So mRNA 3 moths after Janssen. Excuse me ? If the effectivity after 3 months was too low then the hurried clinical trials should have shown that. If you tell me that it needs a booster after one year, ok, how could anyone know ? But after 3 months ? They should have known for half a year, shouldn't they ? Are we shifting the goal posts? Or is the virus mutating or our knowledge of it ever incomplete ? If so isn't that an argument for the futility of vaccination (not really, I think, but don't oversell) ? Or was our knowledge incomplete, but not that bad at all, but we didn't use our knowledge when we used vaccines as replacements for pandemic contention, and assumed if vaccines prevented death they should prevent contagion without even having tried to measure it ? (it doesn't matter if that's because of lack of resources or lack of interest).

Then AZ was discredited badly when the clot problems were discovered. Ok, clots are no laughing matter, but were all vaccines really treated equal ? Authorities proposed to have Pfizer as 2nd dose for those with AZ 1rst dose. Most people chose to repeat AZ. What does this tell us about the credibility of official advice ?

In any case, it's not very helpful for anyone having to take a decision on their own bodies, is it? If the virus is new it's to be expected that the solutions are unknown and it's good to update advice as evidence builds up. But it's not too reassuring that the main reason to accept a vaccine is that else you're left without a job, or unable to buy groceries, or study, or isolated, while certified vaccinated people apparently unkownlingly spread new or old variants wherever they travel, because new waves of infections keep spreading even through highly vaccinated places, for now with lower lethality. Or worse, since pandemic contention is tabu, refusing to accept a vaccine will just have you getting COVID-19 and dying because effective measures to stop any infectious disease are too business unfriendly for you to afford.

So you have to accept vaccines again and again while people who are just as human as you but under a different government (or further down under yours) would like a dose or two but won't get them because... money.

Man!
 

λ the β-Redex Reducer

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What I don't like is how German government makes false promises all the time.
1. As soon as everybody as an offer to get the vaccine we can remove all rules
-> Did not happen
2. When 80% of all people are vaccinated we can remove all rules
-> Now 80% of all grown ups are vaccinated, still masks are required
Almost every country makes those promises because they need to in order to get what they need. If they had told us back in 2019 that they were going to remove our human rights, destroy the economy, come up with a mandatory medical procedure, and install an Orwellian regime which will last for many years; then no one would have gone along with it. So it started as 2 weeks to flatten the curve, then a month was added, then another month, etc. Slowly but surely people got eased into an Orwellian nightmare. This will not end until society is reformed, at which point the media will finally shut up about covid-19 letting everyone just forget about it. Then covid-19 will be over.

Why isn't the vaccine enough to get back all freedom, including the freedom of not needing to wear a mask?
If you take a mandatory vaccine (or other mandatory medical procedure) then you give in to the government by surrendering one of your most vital rights, that of medical freedom. By doing so you prove that the government can gain total control over you and can take any right they want. If you are willing to surrender your body to the government, then what will you not be willing to surrender? So why would they stop when society just proved that the government can get away with it?

How long do they want to keep up those rules?
Probably until sometime around when the Dollar falls and we get a new world order. If you still own a lot of fiat scam currency (i.e. Dollars, or anything anchored to it such as Euros or virtually any other fiat currency), then now might be a good time to swap it for something that is not going to be worthless soon.
 

Linux-SWAT

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How long do they want to keep up those rules?
The way the society works is switching.
It has been decided by the bankers, the virus is the excuse. That's why western government did nothing to stop it from entering countries, and created the media chaos + panic.
This is not going to stop unless police + army remove the corrupted politicians who are currently in control in France, USA, Germany, UK etc. so probably never.
 

Askarus

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@pyrat
I do not think the virus is a scam or so.

What I'm pissed of is false promises and incompetence.
I hate following rules that follow no sane logic.

What I hate mist is how University holds presence courses and don't offer to join online.
It worked for the last year, why enforce presence now.

-----
An other argument of mine is that I value freedom more than human life.
Centuries people have fought for freedom and now that is all given up.
Let the virus spread and kill millions of people.
It's better than to brainwash all of humanity and kill our whole society.
Everyone MUST have the right to protect themself, but we're at a point where people need to decide for themself as well
Post automatically merged:

It's hard to eat and drink with a mask on. If I'm carrying water on a long walk and I need to replenish my fluids I generally rip the mask up to leave the nose bridge in place, but that generally blocks my vision, which I could imagine might be more of an impediment in a social setting, and might not work if your a picky eater.
Sure.
All I'm taking about is logic.
The risk of getting infected in that restaurant is a lot higher than the risk of getting infected in a one time seminar at University.

If that virus is dangerous and vaccination is not enough to keep us save, why force me to come in?
I can choose 1 out of 4 courses to get my credit points. Not even a single one of those 4 courses is online.
WTF, why? Give me (and others who can not even get vaccinated) at least the chance to stay at home.
 

Linux-SWAT

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Corrupted politicians are able to keep the power only because they control police and army vs the angry people. So this is the true junta.
Police + army are the only ones who can restore the democracy.
 

ElPoco

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Currently in France police+army is mostly made up of right-wing supporters, many of whom are vocal (at least in their circles) about the need for a civil war and mass killing of arab/muslim population.
A military+police coup would probably result in a right-wing dictatorship with genocide of the arab/muslim population.
I'm not looking forward to this.
 

pyrat

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@pyrat
I do not think the virus is a scam or so.
I didn't think so, but still I think I misread you. Sorry.

What I'm pissed of is false promises and incompetence.
I hate following rules that follow no sane logic.
ACK
What I hate mist is how University holds presence courses and don't offer to join online.

It worked for the last year, why enforce presence now.
Ah, That I can agree to. Albeit I'm not in University now, and I'd prefer examinations to be in person. But the rest should be theoretically possible to do remotely. No personal experience though.

-----
An other argument of mine is that I value freedom more than human life.
Which human life, the live of the free person or that of others ?
One thing is dying for your freedom (not really, you don't have freedom once dead, but you may risk your life to get freedom).
Another one is killing others for your own freedom. Because killing someone also removes his freedom.
And is to be expected that those you try to kill will try to stop you, possibly by removing your freedom (at least your freedom to kill them).
So in the end you're just betting to be luckier (or stronger or better armed or whatever) than the rest of the world, which isn't very statistically clever.
Centuries people have fought for freedom and now that is all given up.
Yes. But they fought for the freedom of all. For better lives.
Let the virus spread and kill millions of people.

It's better than to brainwash all of humanity and kill our whole society.
Or let people take care and keep living without brainwash.
We already had lots of brainwash before COVID-19.
The risk of getting infected in that restaurant is a lot higher than the risk of getting infected in a one time seminar at University.
And the gain of being in the seminar (for you and others) might be more than being in the restaurant, yes.
But I don't see the problem of wearing masks in the seminar.
Requiring the covid passport is abusive, because it only gives a false sense of security, it's discriminatory and damages privacy.
Even identifying assitents to follow oubreaks is too invasive. If you fear you'll have to follow outbreaks just don't gather people.
But masks, distances, etc. should be required.

If that virus is dangerous and vaccination is not enough to keep us save, why force me to come in?
ACK
I can choose 1 out of 4 courses to get my credit points. Not even a single one of those 4 courses is online.
WTF, why? Give me (and others who can not even get vaccinated) at least the chance to stay at home.
ACK. The only problem with online courses is they're more privacy invading than traditional classrooms, but in times of COVID-19 that may no longer be true. It depends.
But yes, just let the student choose.

Because the virus panic must be occurring for the changes to happen.
If your authoritarians need that then you'r lucky to have amateur authoritarians. Those kind of changes have happened many times in many places without a pandemic to blame on. It can be for all kind of absurd reasons. Professional authoritarians can build their fear mongering with whatever is (or isn't) available: race, religion, sexuality, nation or state, economic crisis, overproduction, underproduction, you name it.
 

ElPoco

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Professional authoritarians can build their fear mongering with whatever is (or isn't) available: race, religion, sexuality, nation or state, economic crisis, overproduction, underproduction, you name it
They were already doing it before the pandemic and even now they do it with "woke ideology" rather than the pandemic.
 
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