Genre names


_wb_

Microbe
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Maybe we should have a discussion about the genre categories used in C4A.

I think what we need is:

- nothing too complicated, just a flat space (no hierarchy/tree/DAG).

- no more than a dozen or so genres, should easily fit on one screen

- ideally, every genre is defined in such a way that they all have about the same number of games, not one huge and very general genre that contains nearly everything

- it should be very easy for anyone to classify games they know in a genre, so genres need to have as little overlap as possible and as specific names as possible. If I'm looking for something like OpenTyrian, I don't want to have to try "shooter" and "action" first before finding it in "arcade".

- it's no problem for me to have an "Other" genre (but it shouldn't be bigger than the other genres)

So I don't like genre names like "Action" or "Arcade" because they're very generic and overlapping. I also don't like genre names like "BlocksGame" or "CardGame" because they are too specific. I don't like having both "Fighting" and "Beat 'em up", because the distinction between those two is too subtle. Same with "Platformer" and "Run 'n' gun".

I don't have a specific proposal for genre names at this moment, but I would like to open the discussion about it, and perhaps it makes sense to agree on the design principles first (like the one I gave above) before we get started.
 
Well you might not like it, but "FIGHTING" game seems about right for Mortal Kombat and Steet Fighter and several others.  I may be way off here though...this could be interesting.  I'd like to see some more feedback from the players.
 
Personally, I'm not too bothered if Street Fighter and Final Fight (for example) all get lumped together, or if they are seperated.

After all, games that I'm bothered about I'll "favourite" in TournamentHub, so I'll only need to find them once anyway ;)
 
Maybe the Wikipedia article on video game genres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_genres) can be useful.

At the top level, it has the following genres: "Action", "Action-adventure", "Adventure", "RPG", "Simulation", "Strategy", and "Others" (which includes sports, puzzle, board, card).

From these, "Action" is the broadest category and the most suitable one for C4A competition, so it makes sense to "promote" some of its subgenres. The adventure and RPG genres are typically less suitable for competition.  So I think it makes sense to merge those genres into one supergenre.

This reasoning leads to the following genres:

- Action: shooter

- Action: platformer

- Action: fighting / beat'em up

- Action: others

- Adventure+RPG

- Simulation+Sports/racing

- Strategy

- Logic/Puzzle/Board

- Other

The above names are kind of long and ugly (they're meant to show the rationale behind them), so I would use e.g. the following names:

- Shooter

- Platform

- Fighting

- (Other) Action

- Adventure

- Sports

- Strategy

- Puzzle

- Misc

These genres are based on the actual gameplay. Orthogonal to that you could also classify games by original platform:

- Arcade (MAME)

- Console

- PC

- Pandora

or by "business model":

- "Old" Retro commercial (all the MAME stuff)

- "New" Retro commercial (e.g. the 3D Realms games from gcw)

- New indie commercial (e.g. SuperHexagon)

- Ported games/remakes (e.g. OpenTyrian, PenguinCommand)

- Homebrew Pandora-specific (e.g. my stuff, Puzzletube, Rescue, BattleJewels)

or by the openness of the license:

- Closed-source commercial

- Closed-source free (as in beer)

- Open-source code, commercial data

- Fully open-source (Free with a capital F)
 
The above names are kind of long and ugly (they're meant to show the rationale behind them), so I would use e.g. the following names:
- Shooter

- Platform

- Fighting

- (Other) Action

- Adventure

- Sports

- Strategy

- Puzzle

- Misc
 
I wouldn't fuse together sports and racing games.

Racing games are really a genre on their own IMHO.

In my mind, Mario Kart is a racing games, but I would never think of it as a sports games  :p

About run'n'gun games, I would put them in shooters, usually the "platform" part in those isn't the important part.
 
I agree racing should be seperate.

Maybe it's worth Jeff making changes to allow multiple genres per game. Then something like Midnight Resistance (Run 'n' Gun) could be in Platformer and Shooter
 
Multiple genres per game certainly makes sense, e.g. BattleJewels being both a puzzle game and an RPG. Although of course it should not be overdone, because in the end most games will have aspects of many genres.

Maybe "Sports" should just be replaced with "Racing"; other types of sport games can be put in "Action" (e.g. Pong type of games), or maybe "Fighting" (for boxing/karate/...) or "Strategy" (for team management type of sports games).

The distinction between platformer, shooter and fighter is a bit fuzzy. I tend to think of it as follows:

- If it involves side-scrolling and jumping on platforms, it's a platformer (no matter if there is shooting or fighting involved). Examples would be Cosmo, Donkey Kong, Duke Nukem, Rescue, Rick Dangerous

- If it involves (lots of) shooting but no jumping on platforms, it's a shooter. Examples would be Space Invaders, OpenTyrian, PenguinCommand, Pulstar, Time Pilot. Typically they don't scroll or they scroll automatically.

- If it does not involve long-distance shooting, and the focus is more on killing enemies than on exploring the level, then it's a fighting game. Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat are a clear examples, but it doesn't have to be one-on-one without scrolling; games like Double Dragon, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe are also examples of fighting games (of the beat'em up / hack and slash type) and not platformers, even though they do involve side-scrolling, because jumping on platforms is not a very important game element.

Games like Metal Slug and Midnight Resistance are of course blurring these boundaries.
 
I would place Contra, Metal Slug and all the likes as Shooters, the platforming part is really small compared to the shooting.

Run'n'gun games have always been classified as a sub genre of shmups. ;)

Streets of Rage, Double Dragon, Golden Axe are Beat'em up, they're the "ancestors" of Vs fighting games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat and the likes. So no problem to pack them together.

Sports game should be kept in their own class. When I talk about sports game, I mean Track and Field, Top Spin, Football Manager, Fifa XXXX, PES, WindJammers and the likes. (DOA Beach volleyball should be classified as erotic game, not sport)
 
Well, here's my own take on a few Genres which could be utilized:

1. Shmup (obviously)

2. Platformer

3. Fighting

4. Sports

5. Driving

6. Classic (this is where things like Pac-Man would go)

7. War Games (this is where something like Metal Slug or even Commando would go)

8. Puzzle (something like Tetris or BattleJewels might fit here)

I can't think of anything else at the moment, so an "Other" category might be okay.

I really think we DO need to have a "Classic" genre.  Open to interpretation, I suppose, what would go into "Classic" - but, for starters, I'd say that any Arcade game which has a corresponding Buckner & Garcia song would go there, Space Invaders Missile Command and Galaxin might also fit here.

Thought of one more thing, how about a Genre for very specifically, "Indie"

Anyway, that's my thoughts for now.
 
I like to think in simple obvious terms.

Everyone knows of shooters as Shmups. A single word, it covers that whole category, and its a category people look for.

So if its a 'fine tooth' categorization system, then going with names like Shmup and Fighter make sense; they're 'well understood' terms.

But I do sort of like what wb was hitting at up top from wiki:

"Action", "Action-adventure", "Adventure", "RPG", "Simulation", "Strategy", and "Others"

--> cutting in at a different plane entirely; not shump or fighter .. those are just 'action'.

Too broad really,but I like the idea of coming from another angle, if you're trying to keep the count down.

The .desktop form for categories is good as well; a top level (that we limit severely), and perhaps a second level that is fairly specific

Action -> Shmup

So an interface can show top level in brief, or a verbose menu for the second? But having a hierarchical list is always a pita :)

.....

A tag cloud is fine by me, but also hard to UI.

..

I suppose it depends on the UI we're supporting here..

Could have a well defined short list of tags (as above, or others); the menu shows the top-6 or top-10 tags.

User picks one of those, and any tags are used in the filter; so at first, no tags, system shows default 6 tag entires; user picks one and UI switches to showing:

top row: list of active tag filters

rest of screen: matching games (by icon, list, whatever)

User could tap or otherwise pick the tag cloud filter row, and get a list of other terms to add; or if screen realestate is enough, show the top (by frequency) tag entries and a ... entry.

So:

First screen:

Action              RPG

Strategy           Whatever

Pick Action, screen now shows:

>> Action                             [ Shmup, Fighter, ... ]

Game1                   Game2

Game 3                   Game 4

Use can now..

- pick a game

- scroll to more games offscreen

- hit the tag to get a tag list

- hit the tag Shmup to add that to filter list

- hit an X to clear filter list and return up

This is without thinkingh about it all :)

If you need a list of current games and cats, I can make one.

jeff
 
Hummm, I like broader categories without sub-categories, personally, but this is not my project.

I suggested the Genres I did...as a way of avoiding sub-categories.
 
Problem with genres is that there is no perfect solution, so why try to be perfect? I would not choose to create a new genre solution but just pick one that is already well maintained, has a large database and makes sense. You can then look for the game on that site and determine what genre it should be. Saves time and discussions afterwards :)

Sites that have added genres:

http://www.mamedb.com/  

http://www.coinop.org

http://www.arcade-museum.com/genre.php

pretty sure there are more 
 
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