Caanoo / WIZ Improved C64 Caanoo Emulation?


foleyjo

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I would ask that the Dingoo chat stuff goes to the general topics as this is for caanoo ideas and wishes.

I too would like to see an improvement to the emulation. I don't know if it is possible or not but from what I've been reading there is nobody who is willing to do this at the moment. (I may be wrong and would like to be corrected if I am)

However my request for changing the front end seems like something more achievable so if the amazingly clever developers are unwilling to try and get more speed out of it could one of them please consider changing the front end?
 

Akabei

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btw: If you are in trouble with one or two specific games, maybe you should try them on one of the other 8Bit emulators like Atari800, MSX, Amstrad CPC, Thompson, etc...
I know, it's not the same as on a C64, but it's better than nothing and the most popular games of that era were published on a lot of systems. Elite for example is available for NES and on the Caanoo, it's even more playable, because there is no need for a keyboard.
 

foleyjo

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Pickle said:
Vice is slower, but that is because of the high accuracy that that it attempts to provide. This project is actively supported, so you do have someone to contact, but I think that it wont really go anyway as accuracy is their main goal. In general the more accurate the emulation the more resources the host hardware has to provide.
Vice really should run most of anything you though at it, but it takes some tinkering around with some of the emulation settings. True drive emulation is a common that is best left turned off for speed reasons.

Is there any chance of improved compatibility (not speed) on Vice C64?

After trying a few games I have had no real problems with the Speed other than with high demanding games (Aliens US version dropship level for 1) .

However I am finding the Caanoo version of vice not as compatible with games as other versions and keep getting loading issues with games.
Now I know the first response is try tinkering with the settings such as the true drive emulation etc, but this has been done.
As an example I tried to load Dragons Lair. The screen went black and then took me back to the blue c64 screen.
From here I tried typing Run and also the sys number I found in the listing.
The same d64 file works fine on Vice PSP,GP2x and on a real C64.

I have had the same result with other D64 and T64 files but can't remember the games right now. (
 
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Hansel75

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Hi foleyjo, just wanted to say with those c64 games you can't get running, i have found a few like that myself.
But i usually try other versions of the rom, and most of the times i can get most games working fine.

Certain roms with there trainers/cracktros etc, seem to screw up in vice, so again, just try a different rom and see how you go.

I also tested out Dragons Lair on my Vice/caanoo, and it worked fine. I was able to get into the game and play it no probs.

My Dragon's Lair rom is called this if it's any help to you-

Dragon's Lair 1.d64
(Version cracked by-> The Dynamic-Duo International)

Also as mentioned elsewhere in the c64 forum, someone said they use frameskip at 2. I tried this and yes it is much better then on auto, still not perfect but at least it's smooth enough set at 2.
And the audio seems to be ok as well with frameskip at 2:)
When i was using frameskip on auto, it was terrible, had stuttering movement in games all the time.

By the way, these are the settings i use in Vice, sound Resid, frameskip at 2, true drive off, oc at 800mhz!

Han.

PS: I have this odd issue with vice from time to time, after i play a couple of games on it in one session, the sound sometimes stops completely?
Only way to fix it is to reset vice. It seems random which puzzles me, sometimes i can play for ages and it's fine, then sometimes it drops out repeatedly after 5mins or so.
This has happened when the caanoo wasn't overclocked to, so i rule that out, Anyone else have this issue? or any ideas?
 

foleyjo

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I'll try what you said with different roms. Just unsure why a rom would work on all versions of Vice except the Caanoo one.

I can get away with Frameskip 0 Overclock 750 and resid for a lot of games.
I find some games can start slow and then the speed will improve without me changing anything. This happened with Werewolves of London.

I too have had the sound issue. My sound went off During Way of the Exploding Fist after the shout sample at the start.

The sound cutting out also happens on the PSP Vice usually after going to the menus.
 

jimjamz

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I've tried a some of my old C64 games (as ROMs) on VICE for the CAANOO and I agree it is slow. So slow that it is unplayable. When I saw Wonder Boy on the C64, I gave up.

What I don't want to hear in this topic is that I should go buy a DINGOO or a PSP. I'm not going to buy a DINGOO or a PSP. These are not answers to the question. The topic title is self-explanatory and I think we should stick to it. Rather than offering suggestions of different devices, offer tweaking tips for the existing emulators, or offers of a new emulator built to remove the common problems users have with C64 emulation on the CAANOO.

I'm using VICE, and yest, it is slow. I want to know from other (more experienced) users of VICE on the CAANOO on how to speed it up. Push the current version to it's maximum limitations.
 

Hansel75

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Hi mate, i agree with you about the existing c64 emulators.
But we mustn't demand these things though, a friendly request is more welcome.

As for Vice, these seem to be the best settings to use-

Frameskip- 2

True Drive Emu- Off

Sid Engine- Resid

Cpu Speed- 800mhz(this will vary, u may not get as high an oc)

Keymapping, Set UP to X button(only for game that require up to jump)

While still not perfect, most games should run ok with these settings, and the audio should be fine to.
It's certainly a better config then the default one.

Also you could try Frodo, it plays games much smoother, especially scrolling games, but it's downfalls compared to vice are, stuttery audio, no inbuilt overclocking, and less compatibility.

I recently tested a manual oc of 820mhz with Frodo through the use of a custom gpu/ini file etc. And it does run quite a lot better then Frodo's default 533mhz, but audio is still not perfect.

Hope that helps.

Han.
 

jimjamz

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Thanks for your replies. I had already started to experiment with VICE on the CAANOO earlier and found that by changing the following:

True Drive Emulation = OFF
Clock Speed = 700 MHz

my results improved drastically.

Switching between FastSID and ReSID had marginal gains at best. Sometimes +/- 2 fps. However, by switching to RealSID, some games sound quality drastically improves as a benefit (e.g. Rampage by Activision - sounds terrible on FastSID)

I'm not demanding anything from anyone on this forum. If they wish to help, then that's great. If they don't, then they don't. But, as I said, what I don't want to see is response that doesn't contribute to the question or obstacle at hand.

If you told me you had a problem running a piece of software with your PC, would I tell you to go out and buy an Apple Mac?
 

foleyjo

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jimjamz said:
If you told me you had a problem running a piece of software with your PC, would I tell you to go out and buy an Apple Mac?

No but you might say go buy a better videocard / processor/ more ram :p
 
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foleyjo

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Seriously though use realsid as it does produce better sound and use frameskip = 2 as it doesn't differ too much from a real 64
 

frolik

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I sympathise with the situation of the C64 not being emulated well, I have personally invested a hell of a lot of time trying to make it work well on the old GP32 GP2X and Wiz. There are ancient threads somewhere where I discussed my efforts collating working disks and tampering with games to get them working on inadequate emulators. It is an age old problem. This is pretty much the sole reason I didn't get a Caanoo because I want to enjoy playing C64 games rather than spending hours in a futile attempt to make games work properly.

The bottom line really is that until someone invests time working on a decent port, it will always be a painful experience.

I didn't mean to antagonise anyone by recommending the dingoo, more paying it forward (was so grateful of qbertaddict mentioning in a wiz post) so people are aware what is possible elsewhere.

Anyway good luck, always nice to hear from 64 enthusiasts!
 

Pickle

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frolik said:
The bottom line really is that until someone invests time working on a decent port, it will always be a painful experience.

I didn't mean to antagonise anyone by recommending the dingoo, more paying it forward (was so grateful of qbertaddict mentioning in a wiz post) so people are aware what is possible elsewhere.

But it is absurd to suggest there is something different between the two ports, both are normal compilations of vice. I highly doubt any changes were made in the core emulation for the dingoo version. They are running the same core software, the only likely difference is the settings, key being the true drive emulation option. If you dont have the right settings with vice then its going to be slow on either device.
 
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frolik

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I can't say for sure as I don't have a Caanoo, but the wiz build of vice has a completely different set of menu options to that of the dingoo. See 18 seconds into this video as an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXzPPvsfQY

Also dingoo version has no options for resid, fastsid etc. So I am seeing them as 2 quite different builds.
 

Pickle

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frolik said:
I can't say for sure as I don't have a Caanoo, but the wiz build of vice has a completely different set of menu options to that of the dingoo. See 18 seconds into this video as an example:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OAXzPPvsfQY

Also dingoo version has no options for resid, fastsid etc. So I am seeing them as 2 quite different builds.

Those are just the frontends, the caanoo/wiz ports use an old gp2x frontend. Pandora uses an official generic SDL frontend. Im not sure what dingoo is using, looks similar to the generic SDL one though.
 
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foleyjo

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I personally have a decent emulation experience with the Caanoo version using the settings that Han mentioned.
True drive emulation should be used when you have a game that requires the turbo functions of the 1541 disk drive. This can slow things down because it loads the disk as if it was in a real drive.

The front end is very basic on the Caanoo version. The best I've seen (and mentioned before) is the PSP version. This is the main update that I would like to see for caanoo version.
 

frolik

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Pickle said:
frolik said:
I can't say for sure as I don't have a Caanoo, but the wiz build of vice has a completely different set of menu options to that of the dingoo. See 18 seconds into this video as an example:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=OAXzPPvsfQY

Also dingoo version has no options for resid, fastsid etc. So I am seeing them as 2 quite different builds.

Those are just the frontends, the caanoo/wiz ports use an old gp2x frontend. Pandora uses an official generic SDL frontend. Im not sure what dingoo is using, looks similar to the generic SDL one though.

OK I see, but still the old frontend is missing a hell of a lot of options. I don't know how the two are ported but personally I think it would be worthwhile having the menu that more resembles that of an official build of vice.
 
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kikendo

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The PSP version of VICE runs much better without having to reduce the framerate and at a lower CPU speed. This clearly shows the Caanoo version has a problem.
I Wish more coders were dedicated to the Caanoo right now, I Feel the platform has been abandoned :(
 

Reesy

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kikendo said:
The PSP version of VICE runs much better without having to reduce the framerate and at a lower CPU speed. This clearly shows the Caanoo version has a problem.
I Wish more coders were dedicated to the Caanoo right now, I Feel the platform has been abandoned :(

I Wish people like you would stop whinging about lack of coders and learn to code themselves. Unfortunately the Caanoo user base is full of people who want something for nothing and then complain that software that the few coders produce is not good enough for them!
 
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