International Men's Day


Klumpen

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I didn't even know that it exists, apparently it was yesterday.

Well, time for some issue awareness then:
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Wikipedia really needs an update (2008):

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“I’ve been homeless. 8 years of it. This is bullshit. I’d say 10% are female. Don’t even get me started on the inequality of it. Women get to come and go at the shelter. Men are herded like cattle. A woman goes in and asks for a job they get career training, good references and a foot in the door. A man asks for a job they get put on a list of maybe 50-100 guys for maybe 20 jobs a day that pay $10 per hour for hard labor.”
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Not sure whether that's allowed to be mentioned at least once per year without a backlash in the form of the usual victim shaming, but I thought it would be the only occasion.
 

elw3

ƐʍlƎ
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Pilotes rank 3 in the deadlyiest job list? The only way i see them get killed is when the whole thing goes down.
So roughly every 2000th plane crashes?
 

ElPoco

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I've never felt at ease with the image of what a "real man" should be. For a long time, I felt like I just wasn't a "real man". I didn't feel bad about it, I embraced my fragility, what some people called the "feminine side" and left the "manliness" to others.

But recently, I've come to realize that the "real man" concept is bullshit. Not only is it very narrow and exclusive of people like me, but it's also hurtful for many people, including "real men". So many men consider that they can't cry, that having to see a therapist is a sign of failure, that talking about their feelings makes them less manly. But all these things are just human things. And by refusing them you hurt yourself and the people around you.

So now I'm trying to deconstruct that "real man" concept when I hear people (both men and women) talk about it.
 

Klumpen

Run away! Run away!
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But recently, I've come to realize that the "real man" concept is bullshit. Not only is it very narrow and exclusive of people like me, but it's also hurtful for many people, including "real men". So many men consider that they can't cry, that having to see a therapist is a sign of failure, that talking about their feelings makes them less manly. But all these things are just human things. And by refusing them you hurt yourself and the people around you.
I tried to go to therapy once, she basically told me to man up, said she can't help me and literally showed me the door. I was massively depressed and hopeless before due to a very bad overall situation (precarious work, tiny apartment with no sleep at night due to neighbors, no chances for another apartment or another job, social problems en masse, etc...) and having failed at every attempt of changing it, after that appointment (I had to wait 3 months for and which lasted 10 minutes) I nearly threw myself in front of a train.
Never again.

If you think about seeking help as a man (at least in Germany), forget about it FAST or the system will make it worse.
Instead try to find real friends who care about it, unfortunately that isn't easy in cities since most will just abort contact or send you to a therapist, see the result above.
 
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Swordfish II

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Pilotes rank 3 in the deadlyiest job list? The only way i see them get killed is when the whole thing goes down.
So roughly every 2000th plane crashes?

Pilots in Alaska have many more incidents than normal commercial airlines
Post automatically merged:

Klumpen thanks for posting that. It's always amusing to me that the "equality" crusadors simply ignore inequality and massive issues if men are the ones affected. There are many more of these inequalities but this is a good primer.
 

ible

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Pilotes rank 3 in the deadlyiest job list? The only way i see them get killed is when the whole thing goes down.
So roughly every 2000th plane crashes?
maybe in training. the smaller planes have more crashes...

i think we should be getting robots to do the more dangerous parts of human labor...
 

levi

Still fresh, damnit!
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I think some men need to work in fields that feel dangerous, usually because they are dangerous. If you take away all of their jobs the ones who don't get killed first will be annoyed at you. Maybe well have to introduce bars where a robot can play russian roulette with you and pay you if you win, just so those people can still earn a living doing that kind of thing.*

* Presumably you'd need two robots, because if you win the first robot's just shot itself in the head. Maybe that wouldn't kill it, but it would assumedly make it hard for it to pay you.
 

Null

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I've never felt at ease with the image of what a "real man" should be.

For a long time, I felt like I just wasn't a "real man".

But recently, I've come to realize that the "real man" concept is bullshit.

Same here, I felt like I had to act in/be a certain way otherwise I was a failure. Now I've learned to embrace myself for who I am quirks and all.
 

Djoga'Ro

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I tried to go to therapy once, she basically told me to man up, said she can't help me and literally showed me the door. I was massively depressed and hopeless before due to a very bad overall situation (precarious work, tiny apartment with no sleep at night due to neighbors, no chances for another apartment or another job, social problems en masse, etc...) and having failed at every attempt of changing it, after that appointment (I had to wait 3 months for and which lasted 10 minutes) I nearly threw myself in front of a train.
Never again.

If you think about seeking help as a man (at least in Germany), forget about it FAST or the system will make it worse.
Instead try to find real friends who care about it, unfortunately that isn't easy in cities since most will just abort contact or send you to a therapist, see the result above.
Therapist and patient need to be a good match. So, even if you could filter for only the good ones, not everyone of those would/could be helpful to you. And you obviously caught a bad one.
 

Klumpen

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Therapist and patient need to be a good match. So, even if you could filter for only the good ones, not everyone of those would/could be helpful to you. And you obviously caught a bad one.
I've heard similar stories from other men, they often don't get help when they seek it out.
Worst thing was when the local parties SPD/Grüne were in power and raised the age for financial help for moving out from parents from 18 to 25 and all of my female acquaintances with similar problems (daily family violence and terror, withheld money, etc...) in the end went to the women's shelters since nobody else helped them either and I didn't even have that option.
All of my experiences tought me, that you won't get help as a boy/man whatsoever and you might even get more trouble when you seek it out (some lose their jobs and get even more problems through that than they already had before).
 

Djoga'Ro

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Living in Berlin, I've never got the picture of the gender bias you describe it, but Berlin isn't a small village, I guess. I was rather commenting on the therapy aspect. Every psychologist or therapist I ever dealt with, took my problems very serious. So from my POV your experience in this regard would be the exception.
 

Klumpen

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Living in Berlin, I've never got the picture of the gender bias you describe it, but Berlin isn't a small village, I guess. I was rather commenting on the therapy aspect. Every psychologist or therapist I ever dealt with, took my problems very serious. So from my POV your experience in this regard would be the exception.
I live in Berlin, not by choice though, am a native (who didn't get a job elsewhere yet) and I heard experiences by that mostly from natives who tend to come from complicated backgrounds and don't have safety nets or ways to escape certain situations whatsoever if they come from bad families and never had any money. Try getting a quick job to pay for necessary stuff (train tickets to job applications, public transit tickets, etc...) as a man without a driver's license for example. Most people are wanted at counters selling stuff and I always got told, that they only want women, so, imho it's especially bad in Berlin if you're unlucky.
 
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levi

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Most people are wanted at counters selling stuff and I always got told, that they only want women, so, imho it's especially bad in Berlin if you're unlucky.
In the supermarkets round here, yes it's mainly women working on the counters (at least in the traditionally UK supermarket) but there are plenty of men there, stacking shelves and in the warehouses out back or unloading the lorries as they come in. The other supermarket which is one of the German discounters more often has young men on the tills with a frequent turnover but I have less information on how their stock room works to be honest.
 

Djoga'Ro

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I live in Berlin, not by choice though, am a native (who didn't get a job elsewhere yet) and I heard experiences by that mostly from natives who tend to come from complicated backgrounds and don't have safety nets or ways to escape certain situations whatsoever if they come from bad families and never had any money. Try getting a quick job to pay for necessary stuff (train tickets to job applications, public transit tickets, etc...) as a man without a driver's license for example. Most people are wanted at counters selling stuff and I always got told, that they only want women, so, imho it's especially bad in Berlin if you're unlucky.
I'm not questioning that. I'm still stuck with:
If you think about seeking help as a man (at least in Germany), forget about it FAST or the system will make it worse.
If you think government agency are, where you can expect to get help, then of course your statement stands. It may be their purpose do help, but the workers their seem rather be tasked to find reasons to question ones right to get help. Social workers and therapists, though, are indeed trying - within the systems confines - and usually don't differentiate by gender. ?
 
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