Pandora 2 - thin it down?


Grench

Forum Addict!
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
6,629
This may be an oversimplification.


If the following were done...


Use metal for the case - roughly 1/8 the thickness of the plastics used now.


Use a thinner LCD.


Remove 3/4 of the height from the keys and controls.


Re-design the battery so that it is the back and back door of the device - no plastics in between or behind.


Have two battery possibilities - thin 2000mAh and fat 4000mAh.


Replace the fat stylus with a skinny one.


How thin could the device get with the thin battery? Could it shave off 1/4? 1/3 of the thickness?


Right now it's nearly 4 smart phones thick - can we get it down to 3?
 
Removing 3/4 off the height of the keys and controls would be a negative for me, I the current buttons because how close to the retro controls feel, and a metal construction would, I imagine, increase the cost by quite a bit.


Given the open nature, not just in software but in hardware too, perhaps you could find someone to build a case as a one off and transplant the internals? You could shave down the keypads and get some slimline buttons online, but making it much smaller would potentially reduce comfort levels.


I do think a metal finish would be very cool though, certainly make it tougher too.
 
The battery is like 5 mm thick, you wouldn't save much unless you remove the battery completely, as contacts etc. adds more to the thickness than the battery does.
 
I think adding roundedness to the base in a similar way to the lid would improve things visually quite a bit...
 
Smartphones can be paper thin because they are exclusively touch based. We'd give ourselves repetitive strain injuries if the Pandora was made closer to two dimensions. Gripping has always been more comfortable for gaming than pinching. The lid could be made thinner with a slimmer used panel though.


Two different batteries is a great idea. If the bottom of the P2 was redesigned where you can just snap a battery against it, you'd be able to use any thin and lightweight battery of choice you'd want. There are laptops with this kind of expansion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I proposed the "battery as the back case" idea to craig a while back. The costs to have custom batteries made are extremely high
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I proposed the "battery as the back case" idea to craig a while back. The costs to have custom batteries made are extremely high
That's too bad the costs are prohibitive for custom batteries, but what I propose instead is having some type of streamlined "holder" for the battery that locks into the bottom of the case like a cartridge. When the battery itself runs low or is old you just open up the holder/cartridge, slide in the new battery, then reattach to the bottom section. There would be no need for a battery bay and cover, just the battery contacts underneath.


The Pandora 2 could come with two "holders"(and maybe two braces for adapting to smaller, lighter batteries). Lock n' load. B)
 
but what I propose instead is having some type of streamlined "holder" for the battery that locks into the bottom of the case like a cartridge.
The BanDai WonderSwan consoles did this, just to give an example of how it can work. ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I proposed the "battery as the back case" idea to craig a while back. The costs to have custom batteries made are extremely high
Not sure why you would think that. The existing battery is already custom. Lithium polymer by their very nature are practically required to be custom.
 
I actually *would* be interested in a giant stand alone battery that the Pandora can plug into... that can also be charged by a solar panel. If there's a dock for charging Pandora batteries while not in the Pandora, all the better.
 
From top down


case


screen


controls


controls


pcb


things on pcb


case


battery


case


There isn't a lot of room for thinning - except maybe removing the plastic between the battery and pcb
 
I think it would be worthwhile having a battery compartment that could be extended with a box that clipped on the back. Then with a little hacking, people could add internal USB devices off the shelf, an extra/larger battery or even official expansion boards.
 
Lets keep in mind that this whole thing is a mental exercise - if the Pandora team want to use any of it, thats fine. For the rest of us, it's just an entertaining exercise.

From top down


case


screen


controls


controls


pcb


things on pcb


case


battery


case


There isn't a lot of room for thinning - except maybe removing the plastic between the battery and pcb

mmm.... I'm thinking that we could thin existing pieces using alternative construction - or move them to the edges. I see the materials order more like:


Case lid (thick for strength and screw holes)


Wifi antenna


LCD cable connector


LCD/speakers/hinge


case/bezel


top half of key tops and high rise gaming control tops


case & lower half of the key tops


keymat


motherboard top features


motherboard board itself


motherboard bottom features


case (thin)


battery


case (thick)


I do not see this getting as thin as a cell phone. They're into the sub-9mm range now (Galaxy S-II is 8.9mm). The Pandora as it is now is 27mm thick. Even with keys, 3x the thickness of a phone is a bit out there.


So - I think an objective of sub 20mm (more than 2 smartphones) thick should be possible - without loosing large portions of functionality. To do this, we will need to address each of the layers above.


Here are my thoughts - yours will likely vary, which is part of the entertainment portion of this.


Case lid - stamped from 30ga (0.25mm) sheet aluminum. Designed as an open side and bottom envelope that the screen slides into. bottom edge of sides have notches for screen stop. Bottom edge has piano hinge.


Wifi cable is removed from the lid. It gets placed in the middle plastics.


Screen (5") slides into case lid followed by a plastic 'screen stop' piece to keep the screen from sliding back out. Device X/Z dimensions would be defined by the screen dimensions + the thickness of the aluminum sheet wrapped around it's edges + thickness of an insulating layer/film between them.


Speakers are removed from the lid to be included in the middle plastics.


LCD cable feeds through a slot in the screen stop. It is exposed on the inside-case side of the hinge. there is no mc-twist through the middle of a hinge - it simply goes from the screen, through the screen-block, through a 2nd slot in the middle-case (key surround) (where there is room for some play for the slack needed) and onto the motherboard.


Hinge - fashioned as a piano hinge between the upper metal and the middle plastic case bits. 1.5mm rod through the center of the hinge is threaded on both ends. 3mm OD knurled nuts on both ends allow the user to tension/de-tension the case lid at any point in it's travel.


The bezel around the LCD is no longer plastic - it is the curled over edges of the lid aluminum. Take any common metal picture frame where the back slides in from the bottom as a reference.


Estimated total lid thickness @3mm.


Game control tops and key height reduced by >50%. Right now they rise about 3mm over the level of the keyboard surround by about 3mm. If we take 1mm off the thickness of the surround by making it metal, then allow the keys to rise 1.5mm over it - then we'll have saved ~2.5mm here. This retains travel distance - I'm talking about removing the majority of the gel-cap on top of the keys, etc...


Key surround - same .25mm aluminum as top. Cut-stamped to have control holes and beveled edges so it won't cut the fingers. It would wrap over the left, right and front edges and snap in place to the middle-plastic. Screws down to middle plastics.


Device back, sides, front one solid tray-like piece of plastic that the motherboard sits in and the rest of the pieces attach to - rises in the back to connect to the lid piano hinge. Motherboard would sit down in it from -above- which would mean that controls and key presses all ride on top of this bit. It will need to be ridged so it won't torque/twist. Speakers will live in the rise to the hinge. Antennas will reside in the rear edges. Two buttons (like AXBY ones) will live on each shoulder - not as tall, with dimples/recesses around them so they net out flush to the case.


Case bottom is, again, stamped aluminum screwed to the middle plastics. The battery door is on the right side behind a locking/pivoting door. Use a battery like the existing Pandora one - but put the contacts on the end instead of the face of it (saves 1mm). To change it, unlock and swing open the door on the right side, tilt the device and it comes out. Slide new battery in. Close and lock the gate/door.


Somewhere in how I'm picturing that in my mind, it looses nearly 1 cm in thickness. Using stamped sheet aluminum for the broad flat parts (top, key surround and bottom) shouldn't be overly expensive. Using cast plastics for the center motherboard support helps keep that one very complex part cheap. Moving the speakers and antennas to the mid-plastics and allowing a few mm of the LCD cable to be seen combined with the piano hinge and knurled nuts eliminates the hinge complexity - and removes the strain from the cable.


The above was off the top of my head. No rulers or micrometers were used in this example. The challenge is to figure out how thin it 'could' be without loosing functionality.


Yes, it's a bit of a radical design change, but that's the fun of this subject area.
 
Very few motherboard top features:


tv6.jpg
 
Lets keep in mind that this whole thing is a mental exercise - if the Pandora team want to use any of it, thats fine. For the rest of us, it's just an entertaining exercise.
Right there is why I used my time to write up my own designs. I believe in the project(s), and any way I can add to them I will and hopefully have. I would be happy to have one of my ideas make it into a future product of Openpandora's, but even if they don't, I enjoyed typing them up. I can take with that the satisfaction that I did try my best these past weeks.

Somewhere in how I'm picturing that in my mind, it looses nearly 1 cm in thickness. The challenge is to figure out how thin it 'could' be without loosing functionality.
Why do you want to slim it down? Did you find the Pandora too thick to use? Any real reason other than as a frivolous exercise for a bored evening?
 
.25 mm aluminium? Isn't that soda-can thickness? That will bend and crumble the first time you put it in your pocket!
How?


The case lid and screen are separated only by an insulator - you'd have to bend the display to make it crumble.


The bottom is essentially tension over the battery compartment (when empty) and in contact with the battery (when inserted).


The key surround is supported by the keymat which is in turn supported by the motherboard which is supported by the central core plastics piece.


The purpose of the metal is to act as a pressure spreader - not as a crush cage. It does not need to be thick.
 
Somewhere in how I'm picturing that in my mind, it looses nearly 1 cm in thickness. The challenge is to figure out how thin it 'could' be without loosing functionality.
Why do you want to slim it down? Did you find the Pandora too thick to use? Any real reason other than as a frivolous exercise for a bored evening?

Three reasons to do something new and different with the case design:


1. Because it IS too thick as it is now. It needs to be able to go into your front pants pocket without looking like you're smuggling a brick. I know the web site claims 27mm - and that is what I quoted above, but sitting on my desk with a book on top of it and measuring the distance from the book to the desk it is just shy of 30mm.


2. Because the current plastics creak, crack, snap, twist, mysteriously loose chunks (holes), show wear (your fingers will eventually polish it to a different than factory finish) and the hinge starts to fail to hold in it's one notch after 2-3 months of use from which point you're supporting the lid with your index fingers and using the shoulder buttons with your middle fingers.


3. Because it currently looks like a prototype to hold the components instead of a professionally finished and integrated end product. Not that this was a bad thing for the first run out - but we're talking about a future-product here (Pandora 2) that should have a much better consumer-oriented appearance.


Note, I consider it to be a perfectly 'functional' design as it is now. I don't see that changing by making it thinner. Right now the distance from the desk to the keyboard surround's top is 18mm. If that were 12mm instead, I don't see that as being any more difficult to hold/handle. It isn't going to 'cut your hand' or be 'too thin' at that point. I'm talking about shedding 1/3 of the thickness - which would still make it twice as thick as modern smart phones.


This isn't meant to be a slam to the current product or design - it is meant to be an exercise to explore what can be done to have something better on the next go.
 
Back
Top