Paranoia Of A Soon To Be Wiz Owner

[blueshift]

Hey everyone, I've been wanting to get a GP2X handheld for about a over year now but never did. I saw there was a successor to the F200 so I decided to get it. But than I was looking around and saw the Dingoo (which I've never even heard of until now) and now I'm kind of second guessing my decision. If I don't like it I can always resell it on Ebay and buy a Dingoo. But I wanted to her peoples opinions first. I'm expecting some bias being that this forum is primarily for GPH products, so I'll keep that in mind when reading the responses.

1) How is the control scheme on the Wiz compared to the Dingoo? I looked at the pictures and the Wiz's four face buttons look kind of close together. I wouldn't say I have huge hands, but I generally prefer bigger controllers. To give you an idea, I didn't think the original Xbox controller was all that bad. Looking at the Dingoo it looks like the buttons are spaced much better. Although the shoulder buttons on the Wiz look better than the Dingoo's. But I've heard people say the Dingoo's D-pad is better.

2) How do emulators play on the Wiz at the default (533MHz) clock speed? I saw that you can overclock it up to 870MHz, but thought that was only for a few really hardcore applications, like trying to play certain 3D games. But I was watching a YouTube review of the Wiz and the guy OC's his Wiz up to 800MHz just to play Mario Kart on the SNES. Do most of the emulators (NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo-Geo, etc) play fine with only 533MHz? This makes me nervous because the Wiz's battery life is already much lower (5hrs vs 8hrs) than the Dingoo's and overclocking the CPU is only going to make things much worse.

3) What is the state of emulators for both systems? I've heard some people say that Wiz is better and others that Dingoo is better.

4) I've heard that both systems have screen tearing (which isn't a huge deal) during very fast moving games, like Sonic. Is that a hardware problem that isn't going to be fixed or can it be patched with software?

I'm sorry if these questions have been posted before, which they probably have. But a lot of the articles and forum posts I've read about the state of emulation for both systems are several months old. In the software world a lot can change in several months and it's already almost December, meaning the Wiz has already had almost seven months to improve. For all I know things might be much different now then they were a even as little as two months ago.

Based on this, what do you think I should do? Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time and attempts to answer my questions. I know you guys probably get people spamming the forums with "which is better" threads all the time.

 

[adolobe]

You will be happy with the wiz.

NES SNES NeoGeo PCengie and Genesis all play great on the system with no or very little over clocking. Battery life is great even with overclock. I only charge my Wiz once a week and I play it about 1-2 hours every night.

The screen is much better than the dingoo. You really cant compare the wiz screen to any of the competition.

Most of the screen tearing can be fixed in software so thats not really a problem

Currently the wiz has the most mature emulators compared to the Dingoo, of course this can change at any time as everything is community driven when it comes to emulators.

 

[DaveC]

4) I've heard that both systems have screen tearing (which isn't a huge deal) during very fast moving games, like Sonic. Is that a hardware problem that isn't going to be fixed or can it be patched with software?

Tearing is both a hardware and software issue but it can be avoided in software. The screen scans vertically instead of horizontal. It isn't a flaw it is just the screens they use. If an app is written to render vertical then no tearing.

I have average sized hands and the controls are ok to me. I didn't like the original Xbox "pumpkin" controller though.

The advantages of the Wiz are:

Wiz has: Twice the RAM at 64 megs vs. 32 megs, a touchscreen, a 3D GPU, OLED screen, capacity for up to 32 gb SD cards (Dingoo is at 8 GB max mini SD unless that has changed), removeable battery (dingoo battery is hardwired in).

 

[gruso]

I bought a Dingoo. I really like it, I carry it with me nearly every day. But it has some downsides that come with being so cheap. The shoulder buttons aren't just odd, they're borderline useless in the position they're in. They're also quite clicky and stiff, as are the start & select buttons (which I often find are reluctant to respond).

Then I look at the software library that the Wiz has now, and I wish that's what I owned. You can access a bigger software library on the Dingoo by installing Dingux (not for the faint hearted btw), but even then you're not getting a lot of the quality homebrew releases that the Wiz is.

 

[blueshift]

Thanks for the responses.

NES SNES NeoGeo PCengie and Genesis all play great on the system with no or very little over clocking. Battery life is great even with overclock.

The Wiz's emulators might be really good, but how much better than the Dingoo's are they? A lot, or only marginally?

The screen is much better than the dingoo. You really cant compare the wiz screen to any of the competition.

Yeah, I've heard that OLED is better than LED. But if I'm going to be playing emulated games made 20 or so years ago how much will having a better screen really improve the graphics? All those games were made to be played on 480i bubble TV sets, so pretty much any modern screen would be an improvement.

The advantages of the Wiz are:
Wiz has: Twice the RAM at 64 megs vs. 32 megs, a touchscreen, a 3D GPU, OLED screen, capacity for up to 32 gb SD cards (Dingoo is at 8 GB max mini SD unless that has changed), removeable battery (dingoo battery is hardwired in).

I have an 8GB class 6 SDHC card and I can't really see myself ever needing anything larger than that. How much of the RAM is actually utilized being though? Your probably going to be able to fit any ROM you want into even 32MB of RAM and still have room left over.

The removable battery is a plus, but I wonder what the odds are of me actually having to ever replace it? Plus the Dingoo comes with a TV adaptor. Although I can always play emulators on my TV with my Dreamcast. But it would be cool to have for playing it at a friends house.

I'm considering just buying a Dingoo, playing around with both systems for a little while, and selling the one I like least on Ebay to recoup most of my costs. The biggest thing that's making me reconsider the Wiz is that I'm paying the same for one of those that I could a PSP, not that I'd ever play any of the PSP games. But it does have a bigger screen. I just don't want to go through the hassle of hacking the system to play homebrew apps when there are systems that actually encourage homebrew.

But it has some downsides that come with being so cheap. The shoulder buttons aren't just odd, they're borderline useless in the position they're in. They're also quite clicky and stiff, as are the start & select buttons (which I often find are reluctant to respond).

Then I look at the software library that the Wiz has now, and I wish that's what I owned. You can access a bigger software library on the Dingoo by installing Dingux (not for the faint hearted btw), but even then you're not getting a lot of the quality homebrew releases that the Wiz is.

Hmmm, this makes me feel a little better about my decision.

 

[adolobe]

Even on classic games he Wiz screen gives you true blacks and brighter colors. REally its no comparison to the Dingoo. I have both and I rarely touch my dingoo unless im updating to a new release for kicks and gigles.

Trust me the screen makes the world of difference.

How are emulators you ask. Well i can only give you first hand review nothing technical. But the Wiz's has better Mega Drive, SNES, PC Engine, NeoGeo support. Ive not tried any GBA emulation on the wiz but i know is pretty close for most not technical games on the Dingoo.

The wiz truely is the better system. But you pay for it. Also the PSX emulator is better on the wiz from the games Ive tried and you dont need to install an duel boot os just to play with it.

Im not downing the Dingo it is a fantastic handheld but you get what you pay for

 

[blueshift]

How are emulators you ask. Well i can only give you first hand review nothing technical. But the Wiz's has better Mega Drive, SNES, PC Engine, NeoGeo support. Ive not tried any GBA emulation on the wiz but i know is pretty close for most not technical games on the Dingoo.

How are the emulators on the PS3-3000? I've seen new PSP-3000's on Ebay for around the same price as new Wiz's. I haven't looked into what you'd have to go through to mod it to play homebrew though.

The wiz truely is the better system. But you pay for it. Also the PSX emulator is better on the wiz from the games Ive tried and you dont need to install an duel boot os just to play with it.

Do you think PSX emulation will ever become as mature on the Wiz as it already is on the PSP? The people who really want to play PSX games will probably have already bought the PSP, so that will probably take a lot of the push for PSX emulation development on the Wiz away. Also, to emulate PSX your goign to have to overclock to the max, which will probably shorten the lifespan. Or is it meant to be OC'd like crazy?

The Wiz does seem like a technologically superior product in many ways. But TV out is a tempting feature, although one that I'd probably rarely use. PSP has TV out as well too, but it doesn't come with it. Wiz looks like it has better shoulder buttons while the Dingoo has better face buttons.

 

[DaveC]

Yeah, I've heard that OLED is better than LED. But if I'm going to be playing emulated games made 20 or so years ago how much will having a better screen really improve the graphics? All those games were made to be played on 480i bubble TV sets, so pretty much any modern screen would be an improvement.

I have an 8GB class 6 SDHC card and I can't really see myself ever needing anything larger than that. How much of the RAM is actually utilized being though? Your probably going to be able to fit any ROM you want into even 32MB of RAM and still have room left over.

LED? I think you mean LCD. But actually the truth is the opposite of what you said about the 20 year old systems. LCD produces an image by blocking light from a backlight. OLED works by each pixel actually producing the light. CRTs like TVs do the same, the pixels produce light (glow). Looking at the Wiz's OLED screen actually looks much closer to the CRT than an LCD does. CRTs had a better black level (LCDs tend to have light leaking from the backlight making the "blacks" look more like a dark grey) This black level is true black on an OLED just like a properly set CRT. Also the viewing angle (poor on LCDs) and response time (ghosty on many LCDs) of CRTs and OLEDs are similar. So in the end the Wiz does look closer to those old CRTs and RGB arcade monitors than an LCD does.

I had an 8 GB card too but it does fill up faster than you think. Put a bunch of NeoGeo games, CD ROMS like Turbo CD and Sega CD, GBA, CPS2, Doom/Quake WADs etc and even with that you will run out, I did. So I went and got a 32 GB card and ended it. The RAM comes into play with large ROMs.

 

[blueshift]

LED? I think you mean LCD.

Yeah, it was a typo.

I had an 8 GB card too but it does fill up faster than you think. Put a bunch of NeoGeo games, CD ROMS like Turbo CD and Sega CD, GBA, CPS2, Doom/Quake WADs etc and even with that you will run out, I did. So I went and got a 32 GB card and ended it. The RAM comes into play with large ROMs.

Hmmm, I guess I'll cross that road when I get to it.

 

[gatekeeper]

These old arcade and console games were meant to be played on CRT television screens and the Wiz does a perfect job recreating that.
It feels like you're playing on a miniature television screen.

The Wiz definitely looks better than a GBA or DS.
I haven't seen a dingoo yet so I'm not sure how it holds up.


I thought about getting a Dingoo but I'm really picky and wanted the most authentic retro experience.
Wiz does a good job. My only complaint is the screen tearing but it's only in certain games and you get used to it.
The fact that it could possible be fixed some day in software is also reassuring.

 

[blueshift]

My only complaint is the screen tearing but it's only in certain games and you get used to it.
The fact that it could possible be fixed some day in software is also reassuring.

I'm far from an expert but it defiantly sounds like a software issue. If it were a hardware issue or something with the OLED screen it's self wouldn't the entire screen go funky to the extent that it was unreadable instead of just a diagonal line going across it where the two sides don't match up? From what I've heard it only happens or is noticeable during fast moving games like Sonic the Hedgehog.

 

[badegg]

My only complaint is the screen tearing but it's only in certain games and you get used to it.
The fact that it could possible be fixed some day in software is also reassuring.

I'm far from an expert but it defiantly sounds like a software issue. If it were a hardware issue or something with the OLED screen it's self wouldn't the entire screen go funky to the extent that it was unreadable instead of just a diagonal line going across it where the two sides don't match up? From what I've heard it only happens or is noticeable during fast moving games like Sonic the Hedgehog.

I'd like to chime in here if I could. I've only seen the "screen tearing" phenomenon during high-contrast flashing menus (white on a black background). It just looks like a noticeable horizontal line. I haven't really seen it during gameplay, maybe on some cut screens in-between levels or something.

I've owned mine for a month and overall I'm happy with it. I looked at some other handheld game systems and this one had the nicest design and best fit/finish for anything that wasn't Nintendo/Sony. The resolution is great for it's screen size. Genesis and TG-16 games never looked better. It's smaller than the PSP, but before I sold mine I found it difficult to fit into a pocket and had to carry it around in a case. The Wiz I can just stuff in my pocket. I also like the community atmosphere here at the forums.

I took a hard look at the PSP Go when I was shopping for the Wiz. I didn't get much use out of the original PSP I had and wound up selling it. With the Wiz I feel I made a good investment. OLED, touch screen, Flash capability, Amiga emulation, and a good open source community are what made up my mind.

Plus, I like being able to play Frogger, Samurai Showdown, Ghostbusters, and Bonk's Adventure on something I can hide in a suit coat pocket.

 

[Exophase]

Re emulation on PSP: PSP has much better PS1 emulation and possibly slightly better GBA emulation. Other platforms such as Genesis and SNES might do better on the Wiz instead.

 

[blueshift]

I'd like to chime in here if I could. I've only seen the "screen tearing" phenomenon during high-contrast flashing menus (white on a black background). It just looks like a noticeable horizontal line. I haven't really seen it during gameplay, maybe on some cut screens in-between levels or something.

I was watching this video and at about 11:07 you can see tearing during Sonic the Hedgehog. But it says in an annotation that that issue has been resolved in a newer release of the emulator than what he was using, the video was uploaded the beginning of August.

I took a hard look at the PSP Go when I was shopping for the Wiz. I didn't get much use out of the original PSP I had and wound up selling it. With the Wiz I feel I made a good investment. OLED, touch screen, Flash capability, Amiga emulation, and a good open source community are what made up my mind.

Besides the $250 price tag which is in my opinion pretty hard to justify if you mainly want to play emulators. Has the PSP Go even been hacked to allow homebrew yet? I know that every firmware and hardware upgrade Sony releases they try to close up the holes that people exploit to get full use out of their hardware. I would think that most people who were deciding between a PSP, Dingoo, and Wiz would mainly be looking at the older PSP models.

 

[Orion4874]

Well, there is a video on youtube of a team that hacked the Go and successfully loaded picodrive on it but they aren't releasing it. The 3000 is only partially hacked and the 1000 and 2000 are fully hackable as long as you have a pandora battery. However, that scene is on it's death bed. Users and developers are fighting, developers are fighting other developers, and piracy is rampant! It's actually sad to see what that scene has degraded to.

If I were you, I'd forget the Psp and buy a Wiz. With the exception of actually playing Psp games it can do alot of what the Psp can do and will only get better. Plus, it's like you said,$250 for that thing? If you're going to pay that kind of money for a handheld then wait for the Pandora, it puts the Psp to shame anyway! But until that happens get a Wiz.

 

[blueshift]

The 3000 is only partially hacked and the 1000 and 2000 are fully hackable as long as you have a pandora battery. However, that scene is on it's death bed. Users and developers are fighting, developers are fighting other developers, and piracy is rampant! It's actually sad to see what that scene has degraded to.

I kind of assumed that the emulaors for the PSP would be extremely mature if only due to the fact that there are probably 100x as many PSP users (and therefore, 100x the incentive to hack it) than the Wiz or Dingoo. Which by comparison most average people have probably never even heard of. What's this about the PSP needing a Pandora battery?

If I were you, I'd forget the Psp and buy a Wiz. With the exception of actually playing Psp games it can do alot of what the Psp can do and will only get better. Plus, it's like you said,$250 for that thing? If you're going to pay that kind of money for a handheld then wait for the Pandora, it puts the Psp to shame anyway! But until that happens get a Wiz.

I already ordered a Wiz. But if I was going to get a PSP I'd get a 1000 or 2000 model and just expand it with a memory stick instead of relying on the 16GB of internal memory that comes built into the PSP Go. With the exception of the dpad the PSP looks like it has a better button configuration than the Wiz and a better shoulder button configuration than both the Wiz and Dingoo. But I've never actually held a Dingoo and my Wiz hasn't' even arrived yet. So I can't form an opinion based on anything but the screenshots I've looked at.

 

[Orion4874]

I don't think you'll have a problem with the buttons blue. I have good size hands and it's fine for me. Also, I agree with LinWinWiz that the Wiz is much more portable. Just stick it in your pocket and go. You can't really do that with a Psp, especially if you keep it in a case. When I leave the house it's either my Wiz or my DS that goes with me.
As far as emulation goes the only thing that the Psp has over the Wiz is PS1 emulation.

The pandora battery for the Psp puts the unit into service mode and allows you to install custom firmware, which you must have in order to play emulators, homebrew and ports(you also need what is called a magic memory stick, but there's plenty of guides out there on this subject). The down side to this is that it also lets you play pirated Psp games in the form of iso's. Lastly, since the 1000 & 2000 models are hackable people tend to jack up the price on these, so you might wind up paying about the same as a Go.

 

[blueshift]

Since the 1000 & 2000 models are hackable people tend to jack up the price on these, so you might wind up paying about the same as a Go.

I just checked Ebay for new model 1000 and 2000 PSP's there are only about a half dozen on the entire site and almost all of them cost more than the Wiz. Buying used/refurbished is always an option. But a friend of mine who works at Gamestop recommended not doing so because of all the people he sees trying to return broken hardware that was bought second hand.

 

[Exophase]

I kind of assumed that the emulaors for the PSP would be extremely mature if only due to the fact that there are probably 100x as many PSP users (and therefore, 100x the incentive to hack it) than the Wiz or Dingoo.

I don't think that's generally how developers feel, or at least it isn't how I felt in the long run. It's good to serve a greater impact but inevitably the quality of feedback you receive can matter more than the number of people you're reaching.. and in PSP land there are a lot of rude little boys who look gift horses in the mouth and bite hands that feed them. There are probably several times as many decent folk too, but those tend to be a silent majority and to be totally honest, getting a few hundred thank yous means nothing to me. I'd much rather get to talk to people who are more into the deeper aspects of it all. I've gotten way more interesting discussion going with this scene so it's been way more rewarding for me to get involved here than with the PSP scene, despite its much larger userbase.

Utilitarianism is good but sadly when it comes to personal factor that drives people to do things it's hard to be motivated by utility logic alone

 

[Orion4874]

So Ex, does that mean you've basically washed your hands of the Psp scene? As one of the godfathers of that scene I'm glad to have you with us!
Now, if some of the other big names from there would come here then we'd really get this place rollin'. How cool would it be if Dax or Fanjita and the like were developing for the Wiz/Pandora? I'd love to be able to go on some of those Psp fanboy sites and rub their collective faces in it!!!

If you have an open line to these guys you should invite them over. Lol!

And I'm not trying to take anything away from the dev's of this scene, they're all extremely talented and I for one am grateful for everything they have done!


The only thing I'm worried about is the Pandora effectively killing off the Wiz development when it's released. Unfortunately I'm probably going to have to wait for the second batch next year.

Sorry blueshift I'm not trying to make more paranoid!!!