Will Software Be Designed For The Small Screen?

[mazza558]

I was wondering about this earlier. Gmenu is fine according to the videos, it looks usable and legible. However, what about other software? Will the web browser be customized in any way, to be usable with the touchscreen? What about the media player?

 

[JayFoxRox]

God.. The resolution is high enough and you are quite close to the screen. Its also up to the devs. Please stop creating pointless topics - it makes you look stupid, just my few cents =)

 

[atomicthumbs]

No, all the applications will go past the edge of the screen and you'll have to attach a TV or be constantly moving the window to be able to do anything

 

[efegea]

God.. The resolution is high enough and you are quite close to the screen. Its also up to the devs. Please stop creating pointless topics - it makes you look stupid, just my few cents =)

Don't be so rude, his question is valid. I have a similar question: As PXML is needed for the application to be able to be launched, does that mean that all the apps, including standard linux apps (as in "non designed for or ported to pandora") have to be ported or at least repackaged?

 

[mali]

God.. The resolution is high enough and you are quite close to the screen. Its also up to the devs. Please stop creating pointless topics - it makes you look stupid, just my few cents =)

This definitely makes you look stupid.
I own a N800 with a similar screen and resolution and this is very valid to ask IMO

 

[sterling976]

Don't be so rude, his question is valid. I have a similar question: As PXML is needed for the application to be able to be launched, does that mean that all the apps, including standard linux apps (as in "non designed for or ported to pandora") have to be ported or at least repackaged?

I haven't read the full PXML standard, but my impression is that programs will run just fine outside of that framework -- PXML is just a really convenient way to automaticallly create your menu structure in GMenu, and a frame of reference for creating alternate menu programs.

Unless they're really going out of their way to lock down Angstrom right now, you should be able to launch a console and from there, run anything you want. Apps will have to be recompiled for ARM at the very least, but it should be perfectly reasonable to expect that a cross-compile to the right architecture should get you running without additional work for most programs. The Angstrom repository already has quite a few programs ported to ARM that you might find useful. For instance, 'autoconf' and 'make' should work just fine from the Angstrom repo, and from there, the sky's the limit. You can download source to the Pandora and compile from there.

There may be a slight issue in that the typical method of installing software using a package manager and shared libraries may cause problems with the NAND on which the base filesystem resides -- it's limited in size to 512MB (although I believe the usable space will be greater due to the planned use of a compressed filesystem) and I've seen others express the opinion that too many writes may wear it out more quickly.

 

[skeezix]

PXML is optional.. ie: its for pandora packages. You can of course run any other app.

Side is up to the dev of a given application .. just liek gp2x and gp32 and every other device, so they'll make it look good or no one will use it

Angstrom is based on GPE and GPE apps are made for handhelds ... so they shoudl fit nicelty and no problem. If more or less function is present, everyone will adjust.

People/devs will do a lot after release .. its not a fixed platform.

jeff

 

[efegea]

But the Pandora team doesn't want us to write on the NAND. They say that the Amsntromg package system will be use only for firmware updates, and applications will have to be installed on external storage (SDs, external harddiscs, pendrives..) (although the user can do whatever he/she wants).

That was the motivation to create the PXML fileformat: we can create an "apps" folder on the SD and just unzip the applications there. Then the GUI will search for .pxml files and it'll show up the icons.

But what about standard linux applications? Should they been repackaged to zipfiles with a pxml? If all I said on this post is true, then yes, they have to be repackaged. Or am I missing something?

EDIT: skeezix beat me

 

[JayFoxRox]

This definitely makes you look stupid.
I own a N800 with a similar screen and resolution and this is very valid to ask IMO

Its just that he seems to open a new topic every day which is getting a bit annoying because most things are either completly useless or they have been discussed a few times before.
I own some handhelds myself and I m used to small screens, but what I was trying to say:

- The devs decide wether they fine tune their apps.
- The resolution allows enough data to be displayed, and pixelfonts with 2 pixels for example should also work to some degree (small, but readable).

I didn't mean to be rude or anything.

 

[PokeParadox]

It should be common sense that any new apps will try to make the best use of the features available... :unsure:
Maybe it's only so straightforward if you write apps yourself... *shrug*

 

[mali]

Its just that he seems to open a new topic every day which is getting a bit annoying because most things are either completly useless or they have been discussed a few times before.

He brought us some nice discussions that helped bearing the whining and moaning and he also started the Ubuntu/Canonical thread in which the possible collaboration was discussed. I suggest, that you just pass by those threads, if you don't like them.
QUOTE

I didn't mean to be rude or anything.


I accept that, but it sounded rude, none the less.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, I had an eeePC with the same resolution as Pandora and had Ubuntu installed.
AND I hated playing games. They didn't fit at all at the screen, some did even refuse to run on the machine since they couldn't find a suitable resolution, etc.
Some ran terribly slow as the system wasn't fast enough, etc.
That's why I stopped playing with it: I totally annoyed me.

That's what I definately DON'T want on the Pandora.
So the basic preinstalled OS will only feature essential stuff on the NAND (browser, messenger, libraries, etc.). All APPS have to be REPACKAGED, YES. This is to make sure EVERY APP runs smoothly on the Pandora. I'll keep the repository clean and repackage some stuff myself, if it will work.

But don't forget: It's an open system. If you totally want a standard Linux distri where you can use all the stuff in the repository: Install Gentoo, Ubuntu ARM or anything else.
But the default OS is aimed to NOT annoy anyone. It's meant for the PLAYERS, not for the Linux cracks. Players don't want to fiddle around to make stuff work - they want to copy it and play without any hazzle.

See my point?

 

[sterling976]

So the basic preinstalled OS will only feature essential stuff on the NAND (browser, messenger, libraries, etc.). All APPS have to be REPACKAGED, YES. This is to make sure EVERY APP runs smoothly on the Pandora. I'll keep the repository clean and repackage some stuff myself, if it will work.

But don't forget: It's an open system. If you totally want a standard Linux distri where you can use all the stuff in the repository: Install Gentoo, Ubuntu ARM or anything else.
But the default OS is aimed to NOT annoy anyone. It's meant for the PLAYERS, not for the Linux cracks. Players don't want to fiddle around to make stuff work - they want to copy it and play without any hazzle.

See my point?

I think we're all trying to make the same point. For new software (emulators, games, and other applications) or ports of existing software (firefox, pidgin, azureus, etc.), yeah, PXML and .zip files are the way to go. For installing tcpdump so you can debug a problem with network play, 'opkg install tcpdump' makes a lot more sense, which fits perfectly in line with the sentiment that the default system is aimed at players rather than developers or linux geeks. I agree with that sentiment, and think it's the way it should be.

The original question was, 'Do standard linux apps need to be repackaged for the Pandora?' It may be that I have a different definition of a 'standard linux app' than efegea, but I take that phrase to mean command-line tools and utilities common to, or available for, most distributions, so my take on that question is 'no.' If someone wants to build a pxml file for wget or make, more power to them, but since most players aren't going to be using those type of tools (and they don't make much sense in a menu-based context), there probably isn't a need to repackage them. Even on the default OS, it'll be possible to install this type of software without a PXML file; it's just linux.

I don't think we're making any points here that haven't already been made, and I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page. My intention wasn't to rekindle this debate, especially since I don't think anyone's opinion was swayed either way the first time around.

 

[rick0815]

(...) It's meant for the PLAYERS, not for the Linux cracks. Players don't want to fiddle around to make stuff work - they want to copy it and play without any hazzle. (...)
I hope I can have both. I would like to "copy and play" and maybe on a SD-card a "fiddle around" distribution. This is why I wanted the pandora.

 

[Capn_Fish]

But the Pandora team doesn't want us to write on the NAND. They say that the Amsntromg package system will be use only for firmware updates, and applications will have to be installed on external storage (SDs, external harddiscs, pendrives..) (although the user can do whatever he/she wants).

About that...

As far as I know, installing to places other than / is still broken/disabled in Angstrom.

 

[Eniko]

I'm actually curious about how the size of the Pandora's physical screen with the higher res looks since I've been thinking about going with 2x scaling for my game. Before I was thinking of this solely as a negative, but the scaling might actually make things easier on the eyes.

Offtopic, I support mazza558's thread-a-day. It definitely helped drown out some of the reordering noise as of late with discussion that wasn't about reordering, refunding, credit cards, exchange rates and banks.

 

[PoisonedV]

mazza558 is a credit to the team boards

also, if you are calling somebody else stupid, if you don't realize you are being rude or consciously doing it, you're either really stupid or a sociopath

 

[CandidStan]

mazza558 is a credit to the team boards

also, if you are calling somebody else stupid, if you don't realize you are being rude or consciously doing it, you're either really stupid or a sociopath

Maybe it is realized and they just love being an ass.

 

[PoisonedV]

mazza558 is a credit to the team boards

also, if you are calling somebody else stupid, if you don't realize you are being rude or consciously doing it, you're either really stupid or a sociopath

Maybe it is realized and they just love being an ass.

"I didn't mean to be rude or anything."

 

[Tor]

I'm actually curious about how the size of the Pandora's physical screen with the higher res looks since I've been thinking about going with 2x scaling for my game. Before I was thinking of this solely as a negative, but the scaling might actually make things easier on the eyes.

For what it's worth, and I don't really play many games, but some games running on the Nokia internet tablets are 2x-scaled and look better for it, and GVM, the Palm OS emulator, also got a 2x scaling option in the second beta and it looks much better.