A video. Again. Mostly about cases.

KidPaddle

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Thanks for video.

I think it's more crucial at the moment to have a few Pyras in the wild, mechanically ok, than one with no discoloring.
In my opinion, it doesn't have to be painted for the optics, which is another process step that only makes it more expensive.
Maybe later, the molds can be revised, if there is enough interest in the Pyra.

Thomas
 

jurop

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Almost everything on the market with flat surfaces is painted, to avoid the visual defects shown in the video. I see three main techniques to hidden them:
- painting
- stickers
- thin/thick lines on the outside where or around the internal pegs are, to move your eyes out of the affected area(s)
I would prefer function over form any moment, i.e. no paint, and ship ASAP since my current tools are wearing off!!! On the other hand, for selling many Pyras my feeling is that visual appearance would matter and painting is the way to go.
 

rygD

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Lemme just go off topic briefly in this keyboard thread:

I am fine with the one shot video, so if you feel like continuing with that format, great!

I vote no paint. ED's call, though, really.

Of the colors shown I would want grey. I still hope for red. If we only get black, oh well. Blue is not for me.


I'm glad the keyboard works as expected for a user.
 

matzesu

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I think if nobody wants the Blue Case, i also fine whit the Black Case,
The Pyra is allready a big advance over the Pandora, so doesnt matter much about these Discolorisation Marks...
 

Confuzzled

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I think the video works well in giving a better impression of how the plastic cases have turned out. It is very easy to get a false impression from a single photograph. A video showing several different lighting conditions works well.

As for painting: it adds complexity, and therefore more expense, time, and adds more things to go wrong. If it peels (I know it shouldn't) it gives a poor impression. Like others, I value function over aesthetics, which I know is a minority opinion in the general population. Frankly, covering up the flow marks resembles hiding a problem, which makes me suspicious. If the flow marks do not affect the structural integrity of the components, then for me, it is fine to show them. I know mine is one among many opinions, and I make no claim to be right.

I also wish to add my thanks to azouls for keeping the community informed and showing such personal commitment to the project. I appreciate it very much.

Getting the production version out to as many software developers as possible is a priority now. I suspect most, if not all of them, are not concerned about the looks of the cases, and just want to get their hands on working production kit so the challenges remaining can quickly be overcome.

Thanks to EvilDragon for his commitment too. If you haven't done it yourself, it is difficult to appreciate how hard it is to keep motivated on a long project like this. I wish him every success and a less stressful future.
 

antisol

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Thanks for the update ED. I like the one-shot video, but I say you should do whatever is the least effort for you. If that's a written update then great, if it's a one-shot video then that's great too.

I don't mind the discoloration at all. I doubt t will be very noticeable and I don't care if it is. All my favourite machines (C64, Amiga, etc) have the same thing.

My first thought is that maybe you should offer painting as an optional extra - you pay maybe $5-10 extra if you want your pyra painted. That seems reasonable to me. It would also mean that production won't need to be held up for something that many people don't care about - you could ship unpainted units while still figuring out the paint.

Speaking of stickers, a stencil stickers with the same or similar dimensions as the problematic surface areas, can be a great cheap alternative to paint.
I think this is a good idea, except that I would have the sticker covering the whole thing. One advantage of this approach is that it should be possible to sell replacement stickers very cheap, so if I scratch my pyra I can resurface it for about $1 by buying a new sticker set.
 

Djoga'Ro

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Is black the smartest colour choice for a portable device, for which chances are high, that it gets to see the sun every now and then?
 

Eight Bit

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I'm amazed by all the people who want the case to be unpainted when it looks like it does...
Of course I too want function over form and I'd be happy for myself either way but when a reviewer gets hold of a Pyra it will go like this;

"For an item I have waited 4 years and paid 700 bucks for, it looks super cheap and unfinished. This and its not very fast outdated SOC make me think it's way over priced and not worth the money."

Unless the Pyra is a device just for us -The Open Pandora/Pyra community- with no aspirations to sell it to a larger crowd, I'd paint it to make as good an impression as possible.

Not saying a layer of paint will make all the difference but first impressions are lasting and will color the the way the rest of the device is reviewed..

Also, cream/off white! please don't ignore it!
 

bubblebee

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Unless the Pyra is a device just for us -The Open Pandora/Pyra community- with no aspirations to sell it to a larger crowd, I'd paint it to make as good an impression as possible.
But the device IS first and foremost for the community. So it's very important to bring the Pyra as soon as possible to us. And then you can think of other people.
 

pmprog

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I reckon black case, but with those rusty colour shoulder buttons would look pretty amazing
@EvilDragon, would you be able to assemble one like this and take a photo please?
 

Wrath Of Khan

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If it works. Painted with high quality paint is a good idea. I agree with eight bit in that reviewers might savage it. Cost permitting its a possibility. However for consistency's sake and to convey a professional and uniform appearance I would suggest paint them all or paint none. Otherwise reviews might vary too much with some units receiving positivity and unpainted ones not.

Yes, the red case looks too brown. Hopefully a newer shade of dark red can be found. The blue is ok but perhaps the shade needs tweaking; brighter perhaps? Grey and black are ok but too reminiscent of the Pandora colour schemes for me. I don't mind about a few injection mold case blotches etc but would prefer it painted. Lets see how the cases advance.
 

Magic Sam

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Hi all !

@EvilDragon : thanks as usual for the nice video and all your hard work :) Was it a Shaun the Sheep coffee mug hidden behind your chair ? ;)

My piece of advice would be to get as many Pyras out in the wild as fast as possible now, and sell replacement cases / CPU boards later (similar to what happened with the CC / Rebirth / Gigahertz Pandoras back in the days).

Even though it might not at first be perfect, it'll still be a huge improvement over the Pandora ! And the Pyra will just keep on improving over time, software and hardware wise.

I believe the Pyra is "good enough" as it is now and is at least ready for shipping in small batches to prototype and (pre-)pre-orderers. We knew what we were signing for, weren't we ?

I agree with you regarding the poll though: it would clarify the situation nicely.

Cheers, Magic Sam (pre-pre-orderer #85 :p )

P.S: and I couldn't care less about the colour ! Make it "Baby Poop" green if need be !

EDIT: and many thanks to @azouls , @ToastBucket and all the other community members involved in the project !
 

theredbaron

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ED, I love you, really I do. When dealing with software or hardware your perfectionism is great. However, a case is a case. If mine has a big enough issue to worry about, well, there are tons of stickers to put on it. That would have to be a deep scar though. What you showed I wouldn't notice till pointes out, and not care after.
 

paralabamba

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I'm agree with a perfect finish, especially for a special device like this. I don't care about esthetic but I think it must be perfect, I use my Pandora all days especially for micro pc, a device who has been built in 2013...
I guess a long life for the pyra and the amazing community behind. I won't have problem if it cost a bit more, quality has a price when it is for a long term use. I see review on gemini pda: nice device, but no developpers and 2 years later big hardware problem.
Pyra must be perfect in esthetic, this is the signature for a perfect device in a perfect community.
So paint, why not?
(Excuse my bad english )
 

docbroke

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Not quite that simple unfortunately. If people get units with 'issues' that are not previously disclosed, then ED is faced with an RMA nightmare.

Regarding the cases - the best solution I have to that is to have the black cases all painted black - and charge ~$10 more for the 'Piano Black' cased units Vs the unpainted 'fun' blue and 'red' cases or the grey. That would give an option to customers who demand a perfect finish without foisting paint on the others who couldn't give a care to whether the case shows naturally occurring marks in the plastic or not.

But, he does still need to build a proper software based hardware test suite so that he can minimize the RMA load.

At this point the parts that require invention are nearing the end.
There are no known hardware issues now, ( ignoring cosmetic issues ). Only important software issues are, charging and speaker volume. However There is no need to stop production for software issues, they can be sorted while production is going on. Once these bigger issues are solved pyra can be shipped with updated software. I won't mind to get my pyra with dodgy software, it will surely get better with time.
Yes, hardware needs to be tested before shipping, but it is no reason to stop production.
 

elvissteinjr

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As expected I see many being against painting. I don't think I need to convince you otherwise, but I wanted to throw out some more thoughts:
We got nasty discolorizations right around the logo part. You know, that part with the fancy, glowing logo. It's gonna be an odd one to talk around. "Oh it's supposed to look like that", is probably not gonna cut it.

It's a device for the community, but we should seek to increase that community. If I was an outsider I'd likely think another time about this device if the case already looks like the build quality can't be trusted. To my knowledge the project also isn't exactly self-sustained either. DragonBox Shop sales are funding parts of it already. The current pre-orders should not be the end.

There will likely be an improved case in the future, which could be painted or not or whatever, yes. But I'd hate getting a "worse" device as the result for putting my trust into the project. It's one of the risks that always come with this stuff and not too uncommon to happen, but it feels weird knowing beforehand that it will be the case.

As a disclaimer, I've been handling Pyras the past 5 years at Gamescom. Doesn't make my opinion more valid than others, but showing them off got a bit harder when I couldn't brush of the case as being just a prototype anymore this year to be honest (it was still one technically, but at the same time I had to say the device was almost finished, so). If paint is a valid option for a decent finish, then I think the option should at least be explored.
 

Alec

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I'm a bit torn on paint. On one hand, it would be good to have it give off an initial good impression. When I got my silver Pandora, my first thought was that it looked like a free toy you'd find in a cereal box.

On the other hand, as when paint wears off, even if it's the same exact color, wouldn't it be a different texture? A bit rough where it's wearing off with a shiny bald spot in the middle.

I think if I had the option, I'd go with no paint. From the video it seems that unless you look at the right angle, it's not that noticeable.

I'd really like to see white as well. Considering the discoloration is most visible when there's a glare, if it's white it might be barely noticeable. A white Pyra with black keymat, nubs and shoulder buttons would look pretty great.

That Hollow Knight shirt was a nice touch, I'm sure @azouls appreciates that!
 
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