Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?


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Thing is that he suddenly appears in some underground-thread here stating something worthless after being absent for months. He has probably read all this stuff, all the people asking for help, ignoring them. Not THAT'S something real, isn't it?
that is the most worrying thought of this whole thread...
Yes. It reminds me of when I used to do a show at a student radio station. The station got a new boss - New, young, creative, kinda thing. Not too good at handling pressure, though. Boss is supposed to do stuff like sell and produce ad jingles, but it didn't work out. Boss is supposed to talk with the people producing content and make executive decisions and stuff, but it was less stressful to decide things in secret and not tell. Boss was supposed to pay bills, but guess what? After a while, Boss stopped coming into the office at all, leaving the poor people who were actually only supposed to catalogue records or do an hour of "this weeks campus news" to try to run whatever needed to be done with whatever mandate they could find (it is difficult to try to pay bills when the post box keys hasn't been in the office for the last three weeks). 

Well, the high point was somewhere around when Boss suddenly one day, after two weeks of no-show, suddenly appeared at the station. Boss loudly and enthusiastically announced "I know what we should do!" - bated breath all around. Boss runs to the photocopier, makes a photocopied face, runs to the nearest noteboard and pegs the face-copy to it: "There! We should all copy our faces and hang them around the station! That will make things a lot more fun!" Then boss ran off out the door again, leaving a stunned silence behind.
 
This whole thread along with some other Craig related threads belong in the absurdism corner.
You're saying that people making some very valid points about Craig's behaviour and lack of communication are somehow absurd?

D.
 
I think that a more charitable reading would be that the whole subject is patently absurd, as in ought never even exist in a sane world :)  
 
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I think that a more charitable reading would be that the whole subject is patently absurd, as in ought never even exist in a sane world :)
And I would agree with that assessment, but these things are what they are - and as long as Craig behaves like this then threads like these will exist. Enjoy them, I do!

D.
 
Craig says nothing therefore probably correctly most people think the worst.


If the situation is not that bad then why has he not put people right?


So the situation is more than likely even worse than we already think!


Feel sorry for the hundreds of pre orders who took the risk and have nothing to show after nearly 4.5 years yet Joe Bloggs can purchase now with zero risk albeit at a higher price. Without the pre orders there would have been no money to produce the Pandora so in that context this is all wrong.


Okay, the pre orders can pay more and also get their unit now but that also seems wrong after waiting 4.5 years - it is all a complete mess and 99.99% of the problem is that there is little communicate and when there is some its misleading (due to being too optimistic).
 
Craig says nothing therefore probably correctly most people think the worst.


If the situation is not that bad then why has he not put people right?


So the situation is more than likely even worse than we already think!
This logic assumes that Craig would take a logical approach to communication with customers.  I think it's clear however that Craig has never taken the logical approach in this area.  Therefore I would say that Craig's silence implies nothing whatsoever about the situation.

- Neelix
 
Craig says nothing therefore probably correctly most people think the worst.

If the situation is not that bad then why has he not put people right?

So the situation is more than likely even worse than we already think!
 This logic assumes that Craig would take a logical approach to communication with customers.  I think it's clear however that Craig has never taken the logical approach in this area.  Therefore I would say that Craig's silence implies nothing whatsoever about the situation.

- Neelix
most definitely, and I seriously think he is completely in denial concerning all what is happening... I even wonder if he can understand why "customers" are unhappy...

edit: language fix...
 
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Yes. My story about Boss above ends with Boss getting relieved of the boss duties, and then getting treated for depression and an underlying bipolarity problem. I cannot say that Craig is as badly off, but there is disturbingly similar patterns.
 
So I wonder what the end game is then? Surely there are still people ordering pandoras from craig and theyre getting serviced (which means small profits to go towards pre-orders and refunds) or are we at the point where we're waiting on Ed to clear his queue and through a sense of honour, starting to work on Craig's queue?

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my pandora, it was worth the wait, but the entire exercise means it cost me a grand to get one pandora, how I wish I got my hands on the unit craig sent me so I could sell it on (it went to old company since the email saying please dont send it there got lost in the void).
 
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As far a I know, Craig isn't taking on new orders for the Pandora and is pointing people to ED shop, Also his pre-order queue is all being handled by EvilDragon directly now, I'm not sure what type of arrangement he has to pay to full-fill these orders are outside of the so many new orders pay for an old order which was established a while ago.


This is just what I gathered, from everything said.. someone more in the know can correct me.
 
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If thats the case then we really are hoping icp2 is a massive success and those profits are used. What a ball ache
 
Technically speaking though, does he even have to use the profits from the ICP2 to help out the preorder/refund situation? Isn't the ICP2 being done under a different company of his? Yes, if he technically wasn't forced to use the ICP2 profits like that and ended up choosing not to, that would be a dick move. But worst case scenario is he pisses off customers who.... were already pissed off. Don't get me wrong though, I would love for any extra money made through ICP2 sales to be used in such a way.

Sorry, I could be completely wrong on that different company thing though!
 
Craig does not have liability for his company's expenses, no. However, if his company is forced into bankruptcy (and legally this can be made to happen, he has no legal right to evade debt forever without declaring bankruptcy) it's legally possible that he's deemed unfit to run other companies and can be stripped of his position. This could result in the companies getting shut down, issuing out refunds and possibly also having to declare bankruptcy.

So it's probably in Craig's best interest to not try playing Timothy Roberts CEO and actually do what he can to make good on his company's debt. Not to say he'll follow what's in his best interests..

I don't think iCP2 profits would even come close to totally solving his problems anyway, I doubt he'll make more than a few dozen thousand off of it and the expenses for the unshipped Pandoras could exceed $200k.. They'd go a decent way towards lowering the burden ED is taking upon himself, so long as ED actually wants to keep doing this.
 
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Gotcha, thanks for explaining that in a bit more detail... figured I had to be missing something (business and the legal stuff surrounding it is not even remotely my area of expertise).
 
Ok Exophase you got me to google "Timothy Roberts"+CEO. (A CEO who committed securities fraud).


Is it fair to imply that Craig defrauded investors for personal profit? Do you want to let that stand unamended? (Edit fixed typo)
 
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Ok Exophase you got me to google "Timothy Roberts"+CEO. (A CEO who committed securities fraud).


Is it fair to imply that Craig defrauded investors for personal profit? Do you want to let that stand unamended? (Edit fixed typo)
Given that Craig is deliberately avoiding discussion of the state of his 2008 Pandora queue, I'd say it's fair to imply that Craig is engaging in dodgy business. Actually, aside from the fact that he's not gotten any(?) personal profit out of the deal, I don't see much difference between him and Mr Roberts.

D.
 
As far as I can see, Exo is not implying anything at all. He is saying that it is in Craigs best interest to not be like Timothy Roberts. Don't go putting words in other peoples mouths...eh, keyboards.
 
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