Nvidia's Project Shield - 'Android & Tegra 4 inside'


alucart1984

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
274
Age
37
The Shield sure is amazing.  I love playing games on mine. When people are watching me play something like Castlevania Aria of Sorrow they ask how are you playing that and why does it look so clear.  I tell them it is the power of the Shield LOL
 

Jumpman

Advanced Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
3,095
Location
Sin City
The Shield sure is amazing.  I love playing games on mine. When people are watching me play something like Castlevania Aria of Sorrow they ask how are you playing that and why does it look so clear.  I tell them it is the power of the Shield LOL
How well do the DS games display, in comparison to the the 3DSXL? I had a DSiXL, and I currently have the 3DSXL and playing DS games on the larger screen make the games a little pixly and the colors to appear slightly washed out. Is this an issue on the Shield?

Chris
 
C

CocoCreekFisherman

Guest
The Shield sure is amazing.  I love playing games on mine. When people are watching me play something like Castlevania Aria of Sorrow they ask how are you playing that and why does it look so clear.  I tell them it is the power of the Shield LOL
How well do the DS games display, in comparison to the the 3DSXL? I had a DSiXL, and I currently have the 3DSXL and playing DS games on the larger screen make the games a little pixly and the colors to appear slightly washed out. Is this an issue on the Shield?

Chris
I can say I too went from a DSI >3DS>3DSXL so I know exactly what you are referring too. I can say honestly no not at all. First of all take games like Max Payne, Sonic, Crazy Taxi and Quake 3...they are all enhanced for the Tegra chip and actually look better than any other version of those games I have ever played,,,, and let me tell you I have played them all. :D
 
Last edited:

SiDCrAzY

GP2X User
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
441
Age
35
Website
Visit site
I took some pictures of the different screen options in DraStic. I'd say it still has some pixelation, however the colors are not washed out like on the 3DSXL.

DS games look best on the DSiXL in my opinion.

4cyAmSMl.jpg


KDNSRMZl.jpg


a8rzn4jl.jpg
 

Jumpman

Advanced Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
3,095
Location
Sin City
Thanks for the pics and info guys. I'm not really sure if I'll give up playing DS games on my 3DSXL(as dual screens seem to be the way to go), but it's good to have options.

I think if the Shield ever gets 100% full speed PSP game play, I would give up my PSP in a heartbeat though, as the Shield would offer a better experience overall due to the better screen, and a proper analog stick, instead of that crap nub of the PSP.

Chris
 

CAZMIESTER

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
966
Had a look on libretro board and found this emulation compatibility list for retroarch on the forum sorry to isamu99 for copy pasting your post

Anyway,

I have had it running pretty stable at 60Hz for a couple of straight hours at least.

So far all of the cores are fullspeed - audio crackling doesn't seem to happen except for one exception - PCSX ReARMed with some games (listed below).

Games that ran at 60Hz internally (like nearly every 3D/2D fighter, like Tekken 3/Tekken 2/Tobal 2) run flawlessly. There is no issue there. Hell, I can even get the occasional 30Hz game like Ridge Racer Type 4 to run just fine.

There seems to be a problem with a lot of games that ran internally at 30Hz though (Final Fantasy 7/Chrono Cross/Crash Bandicoot 1/Resident Evil 1). These all produce audio crackles right now. The absolute worst offender here is Chrono Cross - it's a total crapshoot when threaded video is not enabled.

You can avoid these issues by using the new threaded video mode option with adaptive jittering - but honestly, I don't consider it good enough compared to static syncing and Vsync. Hopefully we can find a way to fix these issues with the PSX core on Shield with static syncing.

Other than that, it's looking to be a great device indeed. While Android still sucks, this is definitely the best Android experience I've had so far with an Android-based device. Could be a real game changer if they have Google's ear and Google actually starts ramming through the kind of performance/stability improvements that game developers demand. So more pressure needs to be put on these Google guys so that everyone benefits in the end - things have been languishing for far too long.

Regarding performance -

Performance tests

Genesis Plus GX - runs everything at fullspeed. The only really demanding game here is Virtua Racing (SVP) and that runs fullspeed as well. Runs fullspeed with the blargg CPU filter on as well.

Picodrive - runs everything at fullspeed - 32X too. The only really demanding game on 32X is Virtua Fighter 32X (2fps shy of fullspeed on an iPad 2/Mini) and that runs fullspeed here as well.

VBA Next - runs everything at fullspeed. This one is in the bag. Look ma - no dynarecs. Next thing I might try is seeing if regular VBA-M (non-Next) will still run at fullspeed as well.

Nestopia - Fullspeed on everything even with blargg's NTSC filters. No big surprise though.

FCEUmm - Fullspeed on everything. No big surprise.

Gambatte - Fullspeed on everything. No big surprise.

NX Engine (Cave Story) - Fullspeed.

Prboom (Doom) - Fullspeed.

Tyrquake - at resolution 640x480 (remember - this is software rendered - using the unoptimised and slow as hell C software video routines- which have never been fast really - and Michael Abrash' optimized x86 ASM rasterizer is 32bit x86-only) - you can run Tyrquake at more or less a locked 50fps cap - at 60fps mode it hovers between 55 and 60. Believe it or not but this is very impressive - the PS3 and 360 can only dream of matching that kind of performance.

I recommend setting resolution to 512x512 - still looks very good on the Shield's screen and you can get a stable 60fps out of it that way.

Mednafen PSX - Hovers between 35 and 40fps and has occasional spikes to 44 - 48fps. An interpreter CPU core for PSX AND an unoptimised PSX GPU - and it's already running at such speeds. I'm quite impressed. The PS3 by comparison ran Mednafen PSX at 18 to 21fps - so this is quite good.

Mednafen Virtual Boy - Fullspeed with every game - with no speed hacks.

Mednafen NGP/WonderSwan/PC Engine - All fullspeed - no big surprises here.

SNES9x Next - Fullspeed with every game. Decided to push it to the max a bit - tried to run Star Fox 2 with the SuperFX core overclocked to 100MHz. Some dips to 58/57fps - so set it to 80MHz and you should be fine there - there are still a few dips to 58/57fps at busy scenes with 80MHz but 60MHz is fine. Anyway, this represents the absolute most demanding usecase you can imagine for SNES9x Next.

SNES9x mainline (non-Next) - Fullspeed with every game - with no alterations to the codebase. Plays Yoshi's Island at fullspeed for instance - and so does the other SuperFX games. SA1 games like Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius are fullspeed too.

Another demanding usecase - mosaic pseudo hi-res tile rendering - in Seiken Densetsu 3 it switches to this mode when you are outside and you either bring up the menu or if text is presented. For SNES9x Next I always patch this out and instead revert to pseudo hi-res tile rendering - it looks nearly identical and it doesn't come with a huge 50-60fps drop in framerate. Anyway, it looks like Shield doesn't need that and it's still fullspeed regardless in this mode with SNES9x mainline.

Desmume - With our ARM JIT core Sonic Rush is running at 35fps. Yeah - looks like Exophase's closed-source/payware emu has that audience entirely to himself sad to say. Also, there are quite some serious bugs in the ARM JIT core - so I see the Desmume core only being really usable on PC in the near foreseeable future.

Ninja Warriors (FBA) - This is the crazy Taito arcade game from the late '80s with the three monitors placed next to each other - this game's performance is a total crapshoot on a PS3/360 (something like 25/30fps) - yet it runs fullspeed here on the Shield.

Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (FBA - The heavy usecase here is Akuma's Super Art 1. It's a constant bitch whenever I have to upgrade FBA versions to get that back to fullspeed on PS3 again (it involves various optimizations/hacks on my end). On the Shield here it's fullspeed all the time.

MAME performance tests so far -

Out of all cores, MAME 0.78 is still one of the most demanding when it comes to the games that can run on it.

BTW - most of these games I tested below - I was expecting the Shield to actually fail at running them at anything nearing full-speed. I certainly wasn't expecting a whole slew of software 3D arcade games like the Namco games to be near fullspeed - wasn't expecting Solvalou to be fullspeed - wasn't expecting Starblade to be fullspeed - wasn't expecting Primal Rage to be 58-59fps.

Mortal Kombat 1/2/3/Ultimate/All Midway games with DCS sound - Fullspeed without the DCS speedhack

Primal Rage - 58~59fps

Cruis 'n USA - 30fps

Tekken 1/2 - 55fps. By comparison - these games run at goddamn 15 to 18fps on a PS3. Yes, really.

Tekken 3 - 33fps

Puzzle Bobble 2/3/4 (ie. Taito F3 games) - Fullspeed. All the Taito F3 games are in the bag with this - including Bubble Bobble 2/Memories/Symphonia.

Solvalou - Fullspeed

Street Fighter The Movie - Fullspeed.

Starblade - Fullspeed.

Cybersled - 47fps.

Daraku - Fallen Angels - Fullspeed.

Gals Panic S4 - Fullspeed.

Gals Panic S - Fullspeed

Cotton 2 - Sega STV game (Sega Saturn arcade board] - 25fps (by comparison - a laptop Intel Core i5 3210m manages 55 to 52fps on this game)

These are seriously impressive specs that go way beyond any expectations I had for this thing really. Just amazing on how the gap between laptop CPUs and mobile ARM CPUs is closing this fast - and to have this kind of power in your hands is just too good to pass up.

What pleases me even more is that after hours of play I still haven't run into these performance inconsistency issues that have previously dogged my experiences with Android.

IF we can get the PS1 issues to do with games that use variable refresh rates sorted out with static syncing, then I think this might be the ultimate handheld RetroArch device so far.

Now - given the big performance leaps . here is what I want to try when I have more time -

bSNES core - test if Performance core can run at fullspeed on this thing.
Mupen64 - Try if it can run most games at fullspeed with the cached MIPS CPU interpreter on Shield - thereby dodging the less accurate Ari64 recompiler which still has known game-breaking bugs in a lot of games.

moderators if this is a crap shoot to you please delete

caz
 

Jumpman

Advanced Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
3,095
Location
Sin City
WOW, Awesome list^ Thanks for posting.

So this guys Shield has been rooted right, and he's overclocking the cores? I'm new to that process, but if you can get this kind of performance, I'll have to look in to it.

Chris
 

SNESFAN

Retro game fanatic
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
3,430
Age
39
Location
Fort Knox, KY. USA
should have shot from the other direction, it would have totally bounced off the shield plate leaving the device untouched ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TrashyMG

Sarcasm Dispenser
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
11,092
^ I doubt it, a .30-6 round would go through it no matter the direction..

Infact it may do more damage as the plate would bend inward while piercing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jutleys

Active Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
511
Location
UK
Hi guys just got quake 3 running all i can say is amazing on my shield anyone know how to get doom 3 bfg running. hexen 2, 
 

alucart1984

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
274
Age
37
WOW, Awesome list^ Thanks for posting.

So this guys Shield has been rooted right, and he's overclocking the cores? I'm new to that process, but if you can get this kind of performance, I'll have to look in to it.

Chris
Without seeing the original post that went with I can only think that he is referring to making them run at 1.9 when fully loaded were as right now I believe when all 4 cores are fully loaded it down clocks.  I just got a cheap bluetooth keyboard and mouse and it sure is fun playing Quake 3 on the Shield.  I have a bluetooth headset as well and it works great except some of the emulators like DraStic where the frames per second takes a huge dive with the headset active but it isn't just the Shield my S4 does it too.  
 

alucart1984

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
274
Age
37
The Shield sure is amazing.  I love playing games on mine. When people are watching me play something like Castlevania Aria of Sorrow they ask how are you playing that and why does it look so clear.  I tell them it is the power of the Shield LOL
How well do the DS games display, in comparison to the the 3DSXL? I had a DSiXL, and I currently have the 3DSXL and playing DS games on the larger screen make the games a little pixly and the colors to appear slightly washed out. Is this an issue on the Shield?

Chris
You know you can run the games at their original resolution right?  I think you hold UP and Select right after selecting to start the game.  I could be wrong about the button combo.  I think the games look very good on the Shield.  Also for everyone that has a Shield or is thinking about getting one I highly recommend a Dual Band router.  I had a crappy 54Mbps G router and I just got a Dual Band 300/450Mbps router and am using the 5Ghz signal on my Shield for PC streaming and it is a night and day difference.  Before there was a noticeable lag and a loss of quality especially has I moved further from the router.  Now it is crystal clear and not laggy.  Love playing Bioshock Infinite while laying in bed.   
 
Last edited by a moderator:

alucart1984

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
274
Age
37
Had a look on libretro board and found this emulation compatibility list for retroarch on the forum sorry to isamu99 for copy pasting your post

Anyway,

I have had it running pretty stable at 60Hz for a couple of straight hours at least.

So far all of the cores are fullspeed - audio crackling doesn't seem to happen except for one exception - PCSX ReARMed with some games (listed below).

Games that ran at 60Hz internally (like nearly every 3D/2D fighter, like Tekken 3/Tekken 2/Tobal 2) run flawlessly. There is no issue there. Hell, I can even get the occasional 30Hz game like Ridge Racer Type 4 to run just fine.

There seems to be a problem with a lot of games that ran internally at 30Hz though (Final Fantasy 7/Chrono Cross/Crash Bandicoot 1/Resident Evil 1). These all produce audio crackles right now. The absolute worst offender here is Chrono Cross - it's a total crapshoot when threaded video is not enabled.

You can avoid these issues by using the new threaded video mode option with adaptive jittering - but honestly, I don't consider it good enough compared to static syncing and Vsync. Hopefully we can find a way to fix these issues with the PSX core on Shield with static syncing.

Other than that, it's looking to be a great device indeed. While Android still sucks, this is definitely the best Android experience I've had so far with an Android-based device. Could be a real game changer if they have Google's ear and Google actually starts ramming through the kind of performance/stability improvements that game developers demand. So more pressure needs to be put on these Google guys so that everyone benefits in the end - things have been languishing for far too long.

Regarding performance -

Performance tests

Genesis Plus GX - runs everything at fullspeed. The only really demanding game here is Virtua Racing (SVP) and that runs fullspeed as well. Runs fullspeed with the blargg CPU filter on as well.

Picodrive - runs everything at fullspeed - 32X too. The only really demanding game on 32X is Virtua Fighter 32X (2fps shy of fullspeed on an iPad 2/Mini) and that runs fullspeed here as well.

VBA Next - runs everything at fullspeed. This one is in the bag. Look ma - no dynarecs. Next thing I might try is seeing if regular VBA-M (non-Next) will still run at fullspeed as well.

Nestopia - Fullspeed on everything even with blargg's NTSC filters. No big surprise though.

FCEUmm - Fullspeed on everything. No big surprise.

Gambatte - Fullspeed on everything. No big surprise.

NX Engine (Cave Story) - Fullspeed.

Prboom (Doom) - Fullspeed.

Tyrquake - at resolution 640x480 (remember - this is software rendered - using the unoptimised and slow as hell C software video routines- which have never been fast really - and Michael Abrash' optimized x86 ASM rasterizer is 32bit x86-only) - you can run Tyrquake at more or less a locked 50fps cap - at 60fps mode it hovers between 55 and 60. Believe it or not but this is very impressive - the PS3 and 360 can only dream of matching that kind of performance.

I recommend setting resolution to 512x512 - still looks very good on the Shield's screen and you can get a stable 60fps out of it that way.

Mednafen PSX - Hovers between 35 and 40fps and has occasional spikes to 44 - 48fps. An interpreter CPU core for PSX AND an unoptimised PSX GPU - and it's already running at such speeds. I'm quite impressed. The PS3 by comparison ran Mednafen PSX at 18 to 21fps - so this is quite good.

Mednafen Virtual Boy - Fullspeed with every game - with no speed hacks.

Mednafen NGP/WonderSwan/PC Engine - All fullspeed - no big surprises here.

SNES9x Next - Fullspeed with every game. Decided to push it to the max a bit - tried to run Star Fox 2 with the SuperFX core overclocked to 100MHz. Some dips to 58/57fps - so set it to 80MHz and you should be fine there - there are still a few dips to 58/57fps at busy scenes with 80MHz but 60MHz is fine. Anyway, this represents the absolute most demanding usecase you can imagine for SNES9x Next.

SNES9x mainline (non-Next) - Fullspeed with every game - with no alterations to the codebase. Plays Yoshi's Island at fullspeed for instance - and so does the other SuperFX games. SA1 games like Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius are fullspeed too.

Another demanding usecase - mosaic pseudo hi-res tile rendering - in Seiken Densetsu 3 it switches to this mode when you are outside and you either bring up the menu or if text is presented. For SNES9x Next I always patch this out and instead revert to pseudo hi-res tile rendering - it looks nearly identical and it doesn't come with a huge 50-60fps drop in framerate. Anyway, it looks like Shield doesn't need that and it's still fullspeed regardless in this mode with SNES9x mainline.

Desmume - With our ARM JIT core Sonic Rush is running at 35fps. Yeah - looks like Exophase's closed-source/payware emu has that audience entirely to himself sad to say. Also, there are quite some serious bugs in the ARM JIT core - so I see the Desmume core only being really usable on PC in the near foreseeable future.

Ninja Warriors (FBA) - This is the crazy Taito arcade game from the late '80s with the three monitors placed next to each other - this game's performance is a total crapshoot on a PS3/360 (something like 25/30fps) - yet it runs fullspeed here on the Shield.

Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (FBA - The heavy usecase here is Akuma's Super Art 1. It's a constant bitch whenever I have to upgrade FBA versions to get that back to fullspeed on PS3 again (it involves various optimizations/hacks on my end). On the Shield here it's fullspeed all the time.

MAME performance tests so far -

Out of all cores, MAME 0.78 is still one of the most demanding when it comes to the games that can run on it.

BTW - most of these games I tested below - I was expecting the Shield to actually fail at running them at anything nearing full-speed. I certainly wasn't expecting a whole slew of software 3D arcade games like the Namco games to be near fullspeed - wasn't expecting Solvalou to be fullspeed - wasn't expecting Starblade to be fullspeed - wasn't expecting Primal Rage to be 58-59fps.

Mortal Kombat 1/2/3/Ultimate/All Midway games with DCS sound - Fullspeed without the DCS speedhack

Primal Rage - 58~59fps

Cruis 'n USA - 30fps

Tekken 1/2 - 55fps. By comparison - these games run at goddamn 15 to 18fps on a PS3. Yes, really.

Tekken 3 - 33fps

Puzzle Bobble 2/3/4 (ie. Taito F3 games) - Fullspeed. All the Taito F3 games are in the bag with this - including Bubble Bobble 2/Memories/Symphonia.

Solvalou - Fullspeed

Street Fighter The Movie - Fullspeed.

Starblade - Fullspeed.

Cybersled - 47fps.

Daraku - Fallen Angels - Fullspeed.

Gals Panic S4 - Fullspeed.

Gals Panic S - Fullspeed

Cotton 2 - Sega STV game (Sega Saturn arcade board] - 25fps (by comparison - a laptop Intel Core i5 3210m manages 55 to 52fps on this game)

These are seriously impressive specs that go way beyond any expectations I had for this thing really. Just amazing on how the gap between laptop CPUs and mobile ARM CPUs is closing this fast - and to have this kind of power in your hands is just too good to pass up.

What pleases me even more is that after hours of play I still haven't run into these performance inconsistency issues that have previously dogged my experiences with Android.

IF we can get the PS1 issues to do with games that use variable refresh rates sorted out with static syncing, then I think this might be the ultimate handheld RetroArch device so far.

Now - given the big performance leaps . here is what I want to try when I have more time -

bSNES core - test if Performance core can run at fullspeed on this thing.

Mupen64 - Try if it can run most games at fullspeed with the cached MIPS CPU interpreter on Shield - thereby dodging the less accurate Ari64 recompiler which still has known game-breaking bugs in a lot of games.

moderators if this is a crap shoot to you please delete

caz
Wow I found that Thread and it looks like the developers of RetroArch have received Shields from Nvidia and are working on perfecting the best Android Emulator for the Shield!
 

CAZMIESTER

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
966
can't get retroarch to work on the pandora when you choose a rom it quits or takes you back to the select screen
 

Jumpman

Advanced Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
3,095
Location
Sin City
The Shield sure is amazing.  I love playing games on mine. When people are watching me play something like Castlevania Aria of Sorrow they ask how are you playing that and why does it look so clear.  I tell them it is the power of the Shield LOL
How well do the DS games display, in comparison to the the 3DSXL? I had a DSiXL, and I currently have the 3DSXL and playing DS games on the larger screen make the games a little pixly and the colors to appear slightly washed out. Is this an issue on the Shield?

Chris
You know you can run the games at their original resolution right?  I think you hold UP and Select right after selecting to start the game.  I could be wrong about the button combo.  I think the games look very good on the Shield.  Also for everyone that has a Shield or is thinking about getting one I highly recommend a Dual Band router.  I had a crappy 54Mbps G router and I just got a Dual Band 300/450Mbps router and am using the 5Ghz signal on my Shield for PC streaming and it is a night and day difference.  Before there was a noticeable lag and a loss of quality especially has I moved further from the router.  Now it is crystal clear and not laggy.  Love playing Bioshock Infinite while laying in bed.   
Yeah, I was aware of the resolution trick, but normally I opt out of that option as the picture looks better, but also smaller. I'm getting older, so I prefer BIGGER to smaller when it comes to images :lol:

I actually have a dual band router, but sadly my gaming rig doesn't have an Nvidia card, so I'm SOL in that area. I may upgrade at some point, but I never buy PC games, so the streaming wasn't ever a big deal for me personally. But with the cheap prices of PC games, and now having the ability to play throughout my home on Shield, I may have to rethink that situation. Also, having the ability to stream higher end emu's does appeal to me, so I may go down this road later on.

I have used my Vita for "remote play", and I must say that worked flawlessly, so I expect nothing less from the Shield. I'm sure this will be one of the only reasons I may get a PS4 at some point, but since the Vita lacks proper R2/L2 and R3/L3 buttons, I'm sure I would prefer to use the Shield overall, but to upgrade my PC, I'm looking at PS4 cost, so I'm undecided. I currently don't have much desire for either, so playing Shield for what it currently offers(minus streaming), is fine by me and more than enough to keep me busy for a long time.

Chris
 

jutleys

Active Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
511
Location
UK
Can anyone help me to get  Return to Castle Wolfenstein working i have the files in the wright place but it keeps going back to home screen any ideas
 
Top