Os / Firmware Status?


CodeTwister

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Anything new about the firmware status? According to the last report by ED (November 24, 2009, on pandorapress), suspend functionality has still to be fixed/implemented. Is the release delay long enough to fix remaining software issues?

By the way, Qt4.5 runs on the N900, which has the same hardware specs as the pandora (except peripherals like GPS, nubs, etc) [ Qt including GL ES for OMAP35XX ]. Will Qt be part of the shipped pandora image?
 
QT is included.

"Suspend" (as you would use in most handheld devices) will be included.
True suspend (as in hibernate and all that sort) is not yet sorted, but we're figuring most people will use regular low power mode anyway.

ie: In a PDA or phone, you generally go to low power mode (Screen off, CPU clock down etc), so that alarms can wake it up, it can receive calls, etc. Likewise here .. close the lid and things turn down, but you can stll play mp3s and such. You can turn off. But theres not currently a working 'hibernate' type operation where it is both truly off, and ready to boot up quick. (There are some drivers that are bitching, so someone needs to look into and fix the drivers. Fixing other peoples code is a lot of work, so personally I imagine that the community at large may jump in on this as I doubt we have time to get it working before release.)

jeff
 
skeezix said:
"Suspend" (as you would use in most handheld devices) will be included.
True suspend (as in hibernate and all that sort) is not yet sorted, but we're figuring most people will use regular low power mode anyway.

ie: In a PDA or phone, you generally go to low power mode (Screen off, CPU clock down etc), so that alarms can wake it up, it can receive calls, etc.

There's a big difference between PDA/Notebook's suspend and phone's low power mode. When a PDA is suspended, it does nothing but handling of a wakeup keys and power management. That's why my Zaurus sleeps months on one battery charge. Cellphones have to receive incoming calls, send/recevice GSM signals, etc. That's why they use a low power mode instead of a true deep suspend.
We're blaming the damn chinese factory, but when Pandora finally comes out after all these months of waiting, user will not even get a real suspend.
 
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The dev crew is relatively small so it's only natural that they focus on the most important stuff. I'm pretty sure that it will be sorted out when more people get their Pandora. We get a 4000mAh+ battery so a low power mode should suffice, imo.
 
mali said:
We get a 4000mAh+ battery so a low power mode should suffice, imo.
I will never be satisfied with such kind of workarounds instead of a true solution.
 
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It's not a workaround. ARM is designed to be always on. Take a look at the Nokia internet tablets, for example. We had extensive discussions about standby a while ago. The only thing that needs to be resolved for suspend is the handling of some drivers. I might search for some quotes of the old discussion later.
 
Vitel said:
mali said:
We get a 4000mAh+ battery so a low power mode should suffice, imo.
I will never be satisfied with such kind of workarounds instead of a true solution.
It's not a workaround. That would be suggesting it's a replacement for hibernation. The truth is that low power mode and hibernation serve two different, albeit seemingly similar, purposes. They're just saying "we haven't got hibernation working yet. In the meantime, continue using low power mode, it's kind of the same." It's not like, when hibernation is working, they're going to get rid of the low power mode, it'll just be yet another feature.
 
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I think I'll use the low-power mode instead of real suspend even if implemented. The power drain is neglible (only a few mA I'd estimate) and the benefits contain faster wake up, less problems and alarms that work without any RTC wake up hassle.
 
LOL, Craig is in a mood today. Perhaps he really is drunk.

you can cut the impatience around here with a knife....
 
Vitel said:
mali said:
We get a 4000mAh+ battery so a low power mode should suffice, imo.
I will never be satisfied with such kind of workarounds instead of a true solution.

Having a larger battery wasn't a workaround, nor was low power mode. Suspend is useless on this kind of a device if your not using it the Pandora will either be off or charging. I for one would rather them skip "full suspend" all together and worry about truly pressing matters. Like overall look and feel.
 
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Any idea on how long Pandora's low power might last? My Nokia N800, when freshly charged, reports about 9 days in standby and 6 hours of active use (provided I don't do anything actually useful, like going online or watch a video). In high-power mode (see above), the device lasts about 3 hours.
 
mindlord said:
Besides what fun is a open device if all the software is perfect and there's nothing left to hack when you buy it?
There's always something to hack. But fixing kernel drivers is too hard for an ordinary user and even for application programmer IMHO.

craigix said:
Vitel said:
mali said:
We get a 4000mAh+ battery so a low power mode should suffice, imo.
I will never be satisfied with such kind of workarounds instead of a true solution.

Right, want a refund?
Nope. Pandora is still the best device on the market IMHO. Even with such suspend issues. I just want it to be perfect.

WizardStan said:
That would be suggesting it's a replacement for hibernation.
Nope. Resume from hibernation takes too long time even on my core2duo notebook with 100mb r/w SSD. I'm not sure that we actually need it for Pandora.
 
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I actually prefer the low power mode to hibernate or suspend. First off, it means instant on, flip the lid open and start using it, no waiting at all. Second, there are some useful things that could be done in low power mode (or perhaps modifications on top of low power mode), like listening to music, even through bluetooth headphones, as was done on the nokia n800. Third, the battery will likely last for about a week in low power mode (my anecdotal guess based on n800 usage). So, if you're going to set it down for more than a week at a time without using it, why not just turn it off or plug it in?

Also, ED has stated several times that they plan on working on a full suspend (or hibernate?) solution, but it will take months to complete. To me, low power mode is a sufficient alternative in the mean-time.
 
emil10001 said:
First off, it means instant on, flip the lid open and start using it, no waiting at all.
2-3 seconds of waiting is not a big deal.

emil10001 said:
Second, there are some useful things that could be done in low power mode (or perhaps modifications on top of low power mode), like listening to music, even through bluetooth headphones, as was done on the nokia n800.
Right, it definitely may be useful. But it doesn't mean that we don't need a true deep suspend.

emil10001 said:
Third, the battery will likely last for about a week in low power mode
That's the question.
 
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I think it should be possible to reach more than a month on low-power. TI specifies 7mW on standby and 22mW while decoding audio in this document. couple that with a 4400mAh battery (@3,7V) et voila. (conveniently forgetting about other power-drainers) :)
 
And we have to keep in mind, that the RAM needs power both in standby and in suspend mode
 
Karel Jansens said:
Any idea on how long Pandora's low power might last? My Nokia N800, when freshly charged, reports about 9 days in standby and 6 hours of active use (provided I don't do anything actually useful, like going online or watch a video). In high-power mode (see above), the device lasts about 3 hours.
My maths based on figures that (I think it was) MWeston posted (that I can no longer find, I should really start bookmarking stuff) led me to believe it was around 1/20th power usage, so we'd get about 10 days in low power mode. Or if the battery says there's only about 5 minutes power left, you can drop to low power mode and give yourself an hour to find an outlet.
 
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