Second Batch


craigix

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BlackWidow said:
Wolenber said:
craigix said:
I'm hoping to announce batch2 ordering this month (at the end of this month at the earliest).
Craig, I've been with this from the beginning, even if I didn't have the cash to order until late 2009.

And you are not allowed to begin ordering batch 2 before I get my panda batch 1.

Agreed. Taking pre-orders for batch 2 prior to at least 50% of batch one being in customers hands is concerning for me personally and I would seriously consider getting a refund.

Then you should get a refund so someone else can get their Pandora sooner, as Batch2 is happening and the ordering will be going ahead. We can't stand still now we're on a roll - what's the point in stopping production?
 
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tsh

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I don't think some people realise how long it take to get all the parts together for a production run, or how much cash that requires.
 

Gilrad

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tsh said:
I don't think some people realise how long it take to get all the parts together for a production run, or how much cash that requires.

soooooo in other words, OP is out of money and need to string people along for another six-twelve months to pay for this all?
 
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Kramy

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Gilrad said:
tsh said:
I don't think some people realise how long it take to get all the parts together for a production run, or how much cash that requires.

soooooo in other words, OP is out of money and need to string people along for another six-twelve months to pay for this all?

No... in other words... Craig had to pay for many of the parts for 4000 more units about 6 months back, because of the lead times. That's close to a half-million dollar hit.

It'd be nice to get preorders started soon, so he can put down money on the third batch, and get the batches rolling off the lines more regularly. ;)
 
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MonkeyChops

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Gilrad said:
soooooo in other words, OP is out of money and need to string people along for another six-twelve months to pay for this all?

craigix said:
We can't stand still now we're on a roll
:p
 
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Lorkile

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I have to admit, it is a bit upsetting hearing that preorders for batch 2 will start before a full quarter of the first batch has shipped. But it makes sense, and I can't fault the team for starting so soon & if I wasn't in the batch 1 I would even be requesting they stay on the ball about these things to decrease the wait.
 

valhalla

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BlackWidow said:
Agreed. Taking pre-orders for batch 2 prior to at least 50% of batch one being in customers hands is concerning for me personally and I would seriously consider getting a refund.

Why 50%? Hopefully by the end of this month about 25% of batch one will be shipped, word is spreading and people will want to buy a pandora: look at what is happening with the few ebay sales.

People are talking about their pandora right now, writing reviews and showing it to their friends, and this creates new potential customers and an excellent time to start a new batch of preorders; waiting the end of batch 1, when the buzz has calmed down, would be a very bad idea.

And by the way, we have waited almost 2 years for our pandorai: do we really want those newcomers to get their own a few weeks after they have preordered, with no wait and no suffering? :D
 
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tsh

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Gilrad said:
tsh said:
I don't think some people realise how long it take to get all the parts together for a production run, or how much cash that requires.

soooooo in other words, OP is out of money and need to string people along for another six-twelve months to pay for this all?
No - if the 2nd batch is going to exist, they need to start ordering parts now (we know some parts are ordered), and that requires expenditure. Things like fabing another 4000 bare PCBs (Please either specify the buildup or check the impedance of the critical traces) which commit them to further expense and have to be done before the production can start.

If they were to wait until the 1st batch were more complete, it would just cause more delay - I am not suggesting that batch 2 needs to be used to finance the completion of the first batch. I am saying that people complaining about talk of batch 2 now have no experience of volume manufacturing.
 
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CodeTwister

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tsh said:
If they were to wait until the 1st batch were more complete, it would just cause more delay - I am not suggesting that batch 2 needs to be used to finance the completion of the first batch. I am saying that people complaining about talk of batch 2 now have no experience of volume manufacturing.

Or they just don't care about things like "volume manufacturing" and complain simply because they expected the 1st batch to ship in one continuous run - now its more like the first batch was divided in two pieces: "Really 1st batch" and "Officially 1st batch but technically second batch, because its produced in the same run after the large gap".

IMHO, calling for 2nd batch preorders is the right way to go, but I understand everyone who is pissed by the situation. Don't forget that we wait for nearly two years now.
 
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Asiyura

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I see this another way.
For me, the "real" first batch didn't really start; what OpenPandora team did till now was some kind of "real scale test run" of producing Pandoras…
So the Pandoras till now where some kind of "Release Candidate" ones that needed the production process to be a bit more polished before true mass production.

I'm happy that they improved their procedures to give us the best quality.
 

hedwards

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CodeTwister said:
Or they just don't care about things like "volume manufacturing" and complain simply because they expected the 1st batch to ship in one continuous run - now its more like the first batch was divided in two pieces: "Really 1st batch" and "Officially 1st batch but technically second batch, because its produced in the same run after the large gap".

IMHO, calling for 2nd batch preorders is the right way to go, but I understand everyone who is pissed by the situation. Don't forget that we wait for nearly two years now.
Depends how you count. I thought it was first batch because it was the ones you could order. Second batch being the second group of orders that they were taking. I could be wrong though.

As for paying for it, I thought the goal was for the first batch to basically pay for the costs of creating the platform and very little else. With future batches being the profit margin. I could be wrong and it definitely could've changed since I read that.
 
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CodeTwister

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hedwards said:
Depends how you count. I thought it was first batch because it was the ones you could order. Second batch being the second group of orders that they were taking. I could be wrong though.

As for paying for it, I thought the goal was for the first batch to basically pay for the costs of creating the platform and very little else. With future batches being the profit margin. I could be wrong and it definitely could've changed since I read that.

I think thats absolutely correct. But feelings depend on someones point of view. After waiting and supporting the project with lots of patience for such a long time, some people expect that - in reward - their orders will be more important than others. Therefore they might expect that their Pandoras are (at least) shipped before second-batchers get their turn. Shipping first and second batch in one run is not really respectful. But as I said, this depends on your point of view.
 
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Aninhumer

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CodeTwister said:
I think thats absolutely correct. But feelings depend on someones point of view. After waiting and supporting the project with lots of patience for such a long time, some people expect that - in reward - their orders will be more important than others. Therefore they might expect that their Pandoras are (at least) shipped before second-batchers get their turn. Shipping first and second batch in one run is not really respectful. But as I said, this depends on your point of view.
Personally, I consider the point of view that thinks it's "not respectful" to start orders for the second batch now to be completely irrational and kind of pathetic. ;)
Why does it make any difference to them when other people get to order?
They get their Pandora at the same time either way. Possibly sooner if it means OP have more money to throw at problems.

If OpenPandora turned around and said "Hey we're going to reserve the last 1000 in the first batch to sell on ebay to make massive profits" THAT would be disrespectful, but they're not.
 
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CodeTwister

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Aninhumer said:
Why does it make any difference to them when other people get to order?

It's not the order date but the delivery date. I don't claim this kind of thinking is rational, but its quite common:

If a customer who paid for his 1st batch Pandora two years ago gets this device in the same week as hundreds of other people who ordered just today, he might think "why am I waiting so long if I could have ordered today just as well?". This can be disappointing.
Some people might think it's unfair because they have to wait and others not. (I don't think that the higher 2nd batch price is an argument here) Others may expect something in return for the trust they have given and finally realize that there is no real difference between them and all the others. Even if I'm too rational to share this opinions, I can partially understand them.
 
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WizardStan

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CodeTwister said:
If a customer who paid for his 1st batch Pandora two years ago gets this device in the same week as hundreds of other people who ordered just today, he might think "why am I waiting so long if I could have ordered today just as well?". This can be disappointing.
Well yeah, maybe if they were getting theirs at the same time. The second batch pre-orders need to happen as soon as possible because there's about 4 months before the parts actually arrive.
And we all know the first batch will be done in 2 months, not 4 :p
 
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