What that the PSX has what the gp32 dont


Sonic-NKT

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Hi,
i want to ask you a question.. What does the PSX has what the GP32 dont has. The Games look much better than the one from the gp32, but the gp32 is faster (am i right???), so why there arentsuch games out. Or a game like Vrally 3 on GBA, which looks also very good.
Is it because of the Graphic Prozessor (i heared that it dont have one, the main CPU does all)???

THANKS

bye
 

khephren

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You got it. The PSX has a GPU for polygon pushing, lighting and texturing, as well as fairly good 2D hardware. The GBA has 2D sprite scaling and playfield rotation modes. Hardware alpha as well I think. The GP32 uses the the CPU exclusively I think. It has a lot of grunt though.
 
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:( i just noticed how will the controls work? the gp32 has 6 buttons counting start and select and PSX has 10 counting start and select also w/ the n64 emu same issue gp32=6 and n64=10. how would we make this work? :(
 

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The PSX uses a 34mhz RISC processor, IIRC, which is far bellow that of the GP32. khephren is right though, it has a GPU which takes the strain off of the processor. It has 512k of standard RAM, which is a 1/16 of the GP32, but the problem is the GPU, which has 8mb of RAM. It's not impossible to emulate the console when you look at these specifications, but there are other issues.

PSX games would be pretty much impossible to emulate on the GP32, owing to the fact that the largest SMCs available for use in the GP32 are 128mb. PSX games come on CDs, so I'd imagine they'd be at least 300mb each.

The buttons would be an issue, though I've been able to find comfortable solutions for most SNES games, so perhaps it's possible.
 

paddo

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*Dc*hardcoregamez posted on Apr 16 2003 said:
:( i just noticed how will the controls work? the gp32 has 6 buttons counting start and select and PSX has 10 counting start and select also w/ the n64 emu same issue gp32=6 and n64=10. how would we make this work? :(
I think a playable PSX emu is just impossible to say the least. Mabey you could get it to run psx games with A LOT of trouble and then 0.5 fps or something like that. I think people should be realistic and dont ask insane stuff like this <_<
 
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RobertG

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PSX has a R3000A running at ~33Mhz. Which is the PSX equivalent to the GP32s ARM cpu. GP32 wins here!

But then there's the GTE and SPU. The GTE is a graphics geometry engine, sort of like the T & L engine on a modern PC graphics card. The GP32 has nothing like that. SPU is the sound core, which isn't really a big deal..

There's also the MDEC, a coprocessor used for decoding compressed movies and images. GP32 has nothing like this, and would probably have a hard time emulating it! If you run a PSX emulator on a slow PC you'll find that the actually games run ok but the MDEC movies jump and skip like mad.. It does 80 MIPS or something like that..

GP32 can probably emulate the PSX, HLEd sound, "MDEC skipping", etc..

I don't see any reason why the GP32 couldn't do some really cool 3D games, technically. The reason why there aren't many (any?) is probably more to do with budgets, etc. Gamepark probably don't have the money or resources (programmers, etc) to develop a 3D engine, or API. Whilst with the GBA big companies like SEGA or whoever are able to spend money on developing games like Monkey Ball, Crazy Taxi, V Rally..

Remember the GBA is doing some 3D games with a much slower processor and no 3D hardware, the GP32 should be able to kick it's ass.
 

RobertG

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but the problem is the GPU, which has 8mb of RAM

The GPU doesn't have anywhere near that..

Just a 1MB frame buffer (or 8 mega bits, if thats what you meant).


----------------------------------------------------------------
Main RAM: 2 Megabytes
Video RAM: 1 Megabyte
Sound RAM: 512 Kilobytes
CD ROM buffer: 32 Kilobytes
OS ROM: 512 Kilobytes
 

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RobertG posted on Apr 16 2003 said:
Just a 1MB frame buffer (or 8 mega bits, if thats what you meant).
I think I got confused like you said, stupid yanks love putting things in mbit to make things look bigger. I also confused the OS ROM with the main RAM, oopsie hehe.

What speed is the CD ROM drive on the PSX? Is it 2x?
 
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RobertG

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Yes, I'm pretty sure it's 2 speed.


The Megabit thing is more marketing than anything else I think.. You can put 1MB in you console and say "Our console has 8Mb!!" and not be lying ;)

Still, companies have done worse things.. I was writing a Megadrive emulator but game up because I couldn't find any documentation on "BLAST PROCESSING" :(
 

Bonks

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PSX emulation just aint gonna happen, period.

As for a Vrally 3 (GBA) type game, it could do it easy if it was made specifically for it, just nobodies doing it, not big enough yet!
 

khephren

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If you look at some of the games available for ARM based machines, like the Acorn RISC or perhaps compare the GP to games made for low end pentium1's (without acceleration), then you will probably see what we could expect from the GP hardware, if fully deveoped games were created for it. I guess PC games from around 1995-96 era are about right needing high end 486 up about p75

A quck looks gives games like this: syndicate wars
xcom
magic carpet
system shock
Populous3
Swiv 3D
As for 3D, the lack of an FPU would be a problem. But if it was an original production, you could just use integar.
 

RobertG

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Yeah the lack of an FPU is, I suspect, the reason the quick Quake port runs at 2fps (or whatever), whilst it ran great on early pentiums and even 486s.. If I remember correctly Quake was the first game to require an FPU. Most other PC games from the same era used fixed point.. The FPU is only used for more precision right? I think it would probably be quicker (fps wise) to write a transformation & projection engine using fixed point.

You don't have to use floating point maths to do 3D.
 

khephren

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Ive just found a PDF which says:

"The ARM9 Family processors are capable of delivering up to 220 MIPS at 200MHz typical, while only consuming 0.5 Watts."

back in the day, the P75 hit about a hundred. So weve got plenty of scope (even if MIPS comparisons are pretty much bollocks).

I had some nice 3d games for my old amiga (which didn't have an FPU)
which ran fine when coded for integar.
 

Flack

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You can get a PSOne with an added on LCD screen for $149 USD -- same as a GP32. If you're wanting to play PSX games on the go, I'd recommend the former. If you're wanting to playing older emulated on the go, go with the GP32.

I realize that most of these posts are just "wishes" and such, but like someone else said, be realistic. I'm still waiting for a full speed, full screen, full sound Atari 2600 emulator to play Combat on -- a game that took up 2k of RAM. Talking about running PSX games on the GP32 is just pretending it's something it ain't.

Flack
 

RobertG

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Good 2600 emulation (urgh, Stella) is just as difficult as PSX emulation ;) That thing is pure evil!!

I'd love a 2600 emulator on a handheld, but if I were to write either a PSX or 2600 emulator I'd choose PSX.. Much neater, nicer, emulator friendlier hardware.
 

khephren

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A psx with an LCD wouldn't do me much good on the train :(
As far as I know you can't get a battery pack. And shitty Brtish trains don't have power sockets. Personally I'm not bothered about a PSX emulator. I think it could be done, but it would be slow, maybe 5fps. But I think the GP could do PSX style 3d games using it's native hardware, which is what i'm getting at.
 

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I think there is a battery pack for the PSX & LCD combo, but I'd be a bit dubious as to its life span. My laptop battery lasts about an hour and a half, so I think it'd be safe to assume that the battery pack for the PSX would have a similar life time. Then there's the fact that you'd have cables trailing all over the place, you'd need somewhere to rest the PSX (space is somewhat limited on British trains :S), and you'd also need to carry all your CDs with you. I'd much rather have an all in one unit like the GP32 on my travels.
 

Sonic-NKT

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upppss.....
i dont mean PSX emulation :), i know that this is impossible. I think that was the most understand of my post. But i mean if it would be possible to make native GP32 (or native Ports, of PC, PSX Games) Game which has a good graphic like most PSX games, would this be possible with GP32? I mean i think it could, if someone really work on it.

BYE
 
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