GP2X Dynamism _and_gp2x Beta Testers/mirrors Needed


LordDavon

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Apr 10, 2003
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108
I need download mirrors [400MB download] and beta testers for the latest version of _and_GP2x (development name). For those who don't know what _and_GP2X is, _and_GP2X is a complete GP2X Linux development system that runs in Microsoft Windows sponsored by Dynamism. It will only run on NT based systems (NT, 2000, XP, 2003). The Linux OS is based on Debian and has full capabilities of the dpkg/apt file system.

Current Issues (Most fixed in the installer):
No installer (bug??? not sure if the issue is Inno or me [most likely me])
Configuration tool (based on Inno, so...)
Must be installed on the C: drive (due to above [could be worked around, but the installer is higher priority])
Slow startup after defragging Windows (drive mounting takes about 3 minutes [??])
Windows much have an IP assigned (this is a CoLinux things, but something I would like to automate on machines without IP's [READ: No Internet connection])
Only multiwindow X mode is supported at this time (Inno will fix this also)
Some things ugly hacked (suggestions on cleanup are more then welcome)

Current State:
Due to the latest snapshots of Xming and CoLinux, this puppy runs much faster then ever expected.
Requires 3GB of hard disk space. NTFS compression can significantly lower the size on disk without noticeable performance loss.
Pluggable development environment is started (adding a development environment will be as easy as adding a file to Windows and rebooting _and_GP2x [will be completed in the release/second beta?])

Requirements:
3GB hard drive space (NTFS compression will lessen this to under 1GB, but the space will grow as apps.files are added).
1Ghz+ Processor
384MB or higher (Will work on 256MB, but untested)

If you are interested in helping, please email davsolomon@gmail.com.

FAQ:
What does "supported by Dynamism mean"?
I have been working with Dynamism on various projects for over 3 years. Since most of the projects have dealt with English localizations, they were unsure of how to help support the GP2X community. _and_ is a project I have been working on to help ease people into Linux. We decided that even though there are already some very impressive tools for developing on the GP2X, _and_ could be a useful tool for many developers. Dynamism is providing hardware, focus, resources, etc... Their support is greatly appreciated and needed!

Why not use the many existing libraries?
I like Linux and prefer a native environment. Even though there are some nice environments for Windows and Linux, I found some users struggling with setup or talking about having quite a bit of different environments just to perform a single task. _and_ may be a solution for these users. It will offer the ability to drop in a complete development environments without the need for reconfiguration. This offers users who easily break their environments, like myself, to have a simple recovery method and to also mix in other environments for easy porting (Sharp Zaurus, GP2X, GP32, PSP (maybe), etc...).

Why _and_?
I like native Linux. My last contract was working for a Linux distribution and I have been using Linux for the past 9 years for multiple projects. The only issue is that I need Windows also in my line of work. Let's face it, I hate rebooting and find it nerve-racking to have to reboot just to look at something and reboot again to get back to work. When I started working with CoLinux, I found it a beast to setup and it took days to get everything to work smoothly, but the benefits are great. _and_ will automate all of this (soon) and be a perfect solution for those user in the same niche as I am.

Why base it on Debian?
Debian provides the apt/dpkg system for automating application installation and dependency tracking. The apt system is not perfect, but it is the best system for this project. I do love Gentoo's Portage system and tried it in this environment, but the library overhead increases the download size, removing them is not an option and having to compile you OS just to install an app takes away from development time.

What X system/ font server is installed on _and_?
Ummm... none. Xming (based off the latest X.org cvs) handles X in Windows. It is basically Cygwin/X without the dependency of the Cygwin libraries. The version used is also patched for higher Windows performance and is very impressive.

What desktop is installed?
None. There are X applications installed, but no desktops. To install KDE, you only need to type `apt-get install kde` or for Gnome `apt-get install gnome`. I don't recommend this though. I may install Kpanel or a desklet style application for launching Linux applications in the future, but I am going to wait until after the Beta feedback to see what the preference is.

OK, so what applications are installed:
multi-gnome-terminal, xterm, mozilla-firefox, etc... Kdevelop was the only application requested and should be added after the Beta.

How hard is it to setup networking for _and_?
Easy. There isn't any setup needed. As long as the Windows environment is connected to the Internet, so is _and_.

How different is _and_GP2X from the official _and_?
I hope to make this version more modular and turn it into the official _and_. If you want KDE, you only need to install the KDE module. If you want to develop, then you install the environment module you are developing for.

When will the official version be released?
I hate when people say this, but... when it is ready. Let's see what kind of feedback I get from the beta release.

Why release such a buggy, crappy beta?
...and I didn't even think you noticed. ;-) Actually, _and_GP2X seems to be very stable at the moment and works well. By releasing the beta, I am actually stopping work on the environment while I wait for feedback. This frees my time to fix the installer problems.

You say it is fast, but what system are you using for your testing?
I use a Samsung X30 laptop:
Centrino 2.0Ghz (Dynamic Switching)
512MB PC2700 RAM
15.4” @ 16Bit-1680x1050 Display
80GB Hitachi 5400RPM Drive (Yes, the one known for click-click-click-die)
Nvidia FX Go5200 64MB (Locked 256MG AGP Aperture)
Intel 2200 Wireless networking
DVD/CD Burner
etc...

David Solomon

EDIT: Added requirements
 
What packages come with the environment modules? Specifically the GP2X module? Also, have the packages in that module been confirmed to compile working apps for the GP2X or is that part of the testing?
 
Ravnos posted on Dec 7 2005 at 06:03 PM said:
What packages come with the environment modules? Specifically the GP2X module? Also, have the packages in that module been confirmed to compile working apps for the GP2X or is that part of the testing?

The GP2X module comes with the dev tools/libs (gcc, sdl, etc...) and the GP2X sources. No, they haven't been tested yet, but should be before the beta is on the mirrors. It is not much different then my Zaurus environment, so I don't expect too many issues. My GP2X should be here either today or tomorrow.

David
 
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LordDavon posted on Dec 7 2005 at 11:39 AM said:
Ravnos posted on Dec 7 2005 at 06:03 PM said:
What packages come with the environment modules? Specifically the GP2X module? Also, have the packages in that module been confirmed to compile working apps for the GP2X or is that part of the testing?

The GP2X module comes with the dev tools/libs (gcc, sdl, etc...) and the GP2X sources. No, they haven't been tested yet, but should be before the beta is on the mirrors. It is not much different then my Zaurus environment, so I don't expect too many issues. My GP2X should be here either today or tomorrow.

David

I was actually wondering about specifics. :) I'm using Ubuntu right now and want to set myself up a comparable environment and I'm looking for which packages I should be installing.
 
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I was actually wondering about specifics. :) I'm using Ubuntu right now and want to set myself up a comparable environment and I'm looking for which packages I should be installing.

To setup an environment, I suggest taking a look at the Wiki (http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Getting_started_with_GP2X_development). It is an excellent resource and has the instructions you need.

Once the beta is released, I am sure you can easily mount the dev image and copy everything over. I am still waiting to get a mirror offer though. Dynamism is able to feed the mirrors, but they don't have the bandwidth to host the file for user downloads.

If no offers come through, we may be looking at Bittorrent/Edonkey for distribution.

David
 
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god, what a terrible, terrible name: _and_gp2x? forget it, this name totally and utterly sucks .. ever hear of google.com? its a search-engine, see, and you can type in words and it will find every page that ever existed that has those words on it ..

you think "and gp2x" is gonna be a good search term? for crying out loud, please give this product a different name .. it really doesn't work.
 
torpor posted on Dec 8 2005 at 01:48 AM said:
god, what a terrible, terrible name: _and_gp2x? forget it, this name totally and utterly sucks .. ever hear of google.com? its a search-engine, see, and you can type in words and it will find every page that ever existed that has those words on it ..

you think "and gp2x" is gonna be a good search term? for crying out loud, please give this product a different name .. it really doesn't work.

lol... That is the best response I got all day. You made my night!

Anyway, it is just a development (working) name. It isn't the name of the project. Most likely, GP2X will be a module and no longer part of the name. _and_ actually came from Google. I did a search on Linux running under Windows and everything came back "Windows _and_ Linux". That is how the development name came to be.
 
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Sounds like it could be a Live-CD (Knoppix etc) to make life easier and less disk-intensive for people, too.

Start up a torrent, and then you might not need mirrors if enough people nab it..

400MB is a little big for me to help mirroring :/

jeff
 
skeezix posted on Dec 8 2005 at 02:18 AM said:
Sounds like it could be a Live-CD (Knoppix etc) to make life easier and less disk-intensive for people, too.

Start up a torrent, and then you might not need mirrors if enough people nab it..

400MB is a little big for me to help mirroring :/

jeff

Since one of the main objects is to eliminate rebooting, I don't think Live-CD is the right word, but I like the concept. Think of the project more like a cross between VmWare and Cygwin (or even a mix). The system is based on CoLinux and runs Linux as a native application in Windows. CoLinux then attaches to virtual file systems (as its drives) which are stored as a single file (per partition) on your Windows drive. It can also attach to any Windows partition (using Windows based IO) and even Linux partitions. I use an application called Xming, a Windows port of X.org, to display Linux applications in Windows. I also have the Windows system and Linux system communicating through temp files. I use a few "dirty hacks" to get everything running smoothly, yet it works pretty sweet and does run nicely.

Most of the download size is due to the virtual file systems. These files hold a Debian based OS, GP2X dev files, swap, etc... Currently, they are 300MB 7zipped and I expect them to grow a little before release. The rest of the files are only about 20MB compressed.

Taking this into account, I do like the idea of running the system from a CD. A small Autostart file could setup Windows with a virtual file system. Since virtual file systems are grow-able using Windows compression, the initial system would be tiny. An apt-get dist-upgrade would defeat the purpose, but the idea may have merit. This also could be done on a USB thumb drive. Hmm.... Maybe something to look into once the final version is released.

Thank you for thinking about the project though. I hope there is enough interest to keep it moving forward.

David


Here is a little more information on CoLinux -- From the CoLinux site:
By constantly switching the machine's state between the host OS state and and the coLinux kernel state, coLinux is given full control of the physical machine's MMU (i.e, paging and protection) in its own specially allocated address space, and is able to act just like a native kernel, achieving almost the same performance and functionality that can be expected from a regular Linux which could have ran on the same machine standalone.

Since coLinux uses the same binary format for user-space executables as native Linux, coLinux can load and run an existing unmodified Linux distribution concurrently with the host OS.
 
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why go to all that work to make something thats is only going to be useful to windows users?

us linux guys, some already running debian, would benefit just as well from packages, rather than yet another bootable linux environment .. i'm not trying to be negative about your effort, but it really seems like you've gone to a lot of work to make something that can be branded, not necessarily super useful. one of the first things i'd like to do when i see your final package out there is work out how to undo all the coLinux stuff and just turn the dist into normal, installable packages that any linux user can use .. unless you do that already.
 
Ah, didn't know it was based on CoLinux; neat. I'm sort of intrigued now, despite already running various Linux and FreeBSD machines here :)

What gp2x dev tools have you got on there? Got a gp2x, so you know it can generate working bins?

You could fire up a wiki page about it.

Hopefully you can get a mirror.

jeff
 
just upload it to archive.gp2x.de i dont think theres a size limit, and ed's hosting plan haves at least 1tb traffic.
 
torpor posted on Dec 8 2005 at 09:49 AM said:
why go to all that work to make something thats is only going to be useful to windows users?

us linux guys, some already running debian, would benefit just as well from packages, rather than yet another bootable linux environment .. i'm not trying to be negative about your effort, but it really seems like you've gone to a lot of work to make something that can be branded, not necessarily super useful. one of the first things i'd like to do when i see your final package out there is work out how to undo all the coLinux stuff and just turn the dist into normal, installable packages that any linux user can use .. unless you do that already.

There are already projects available for native Linux users. This is the system that I currently use and I am just reworking things so that anyone can use it. You may not find it useful, but there are others that will. Honestly, I am not a Linux advocate. I am not a Windows advocate. I DO advocate for the right tool for the right job. For some, this will be it.

I think .deb packages are a great idea, but not in the scope of this project. If you want to setup an environment and create the packages, I have several scripts and shells for making them that I used when I was with MEPIS. Shoot me an email and I will dig them up for you.

David
 
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skeezix posted on Dec 8 2005 at 01:10 PM said:
Ah, didn't know it was based on CoLinux; neat. I'm sort of intrigued now, despite already running various Linux and FreeBSD machines here :)

What gp2x dev tools have you got on there? Got a gp2x, so you know it can generate working bins?

You could fire up a wiki page about it.

Hopefully you can get a mirror.

jeff

Nothing too fancy for tools. gcc, sdl, sources... I put out a request a few weeks back asking for suggestions and received only one response. It was from the admin of mygp2x.com (nice guy and I now email him news before I post anywhere else). I am hoping that opening the project (even in its current "dirty hacked" form, will give me a base of users that will help with suggestions and solutions.

Dynamism called me yesterday to let me know that my GP2X's have arrived (I am spoiled and have a special order). They have backorders and asked if they could use one to fill an order. So, to make a long story short... my GP2X should be here today. I will have the other one in the beginning of January (then I will start hacking the kernel like I did with the Zaurus).

I now have 2 mirror offers and hope to get more soon.

David
 
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Vimacs posted on Dec 8 2005 at 01:12 PM said:
just upload it to archive.gp2x.de i dont think theres a size limit, and ed's hosting plan haves at least 1tb traffic.

Will do. Thanks for the heads-up!

David
 
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aapje89 posted on Dec 8 2005 at 02:21 PM said:
CoLinux looks very interesting... :D

I love it. The version I am using is a "testing" snapshot, but only because it contains some of the fixes I needed to get this out the door. Still, it runs fast and stable.

David
 
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OK. Rebuilding the GP2X environment. Let's just say... porting MaxMAME didn't work. Skeezix, mind if I pick your brain?

David
 
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