Boards are in Production (2010-09-08)


EvilDragon

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Just some quick update, as Michael had another call with the board company:


The boards with the rest of the tested nubs will be shipped on Friday, as well as more LCD cables so I can solder them.


Aditionally, they confirmed that more boards are currently being populated. Those boards will be tested and laid aside until the new nubs arrive.
 
Mr Dragon, Evil, Sir.


How many boards are we talking about in this mini-batch?


Regarding the cases. The 4000 awaiting collection. Are they to cover batch 1 or 2?


How many cases are there in the UK awaiting boards?


I seemed to recall before I went on holiday a debate of now many cases were to be flown to the UK and now many by boat.


Are these the same cases that are sitting in China or are those safely in the UK?


The nubs testing just seems to never end and without the nubs the boards are not being made.


What is the ETA on the nub testing? This is a hole in the grand scheme of things.


I'm just trying to fathom out that could still hold up the remainder of the production of batch 1.
 
Well, at least things appear to be on schedule so far. Keep up the good work guys.
 
Great news :D


So how many boards are being shipped?

As many as they can finish until Friday. We're trying to get some quotes.

Regarding the cases. The 4000 awaiting collection. Are they to cover batch 1 or 2?

Batch 1 and partly Batch 2 (as we ordered 1000 spare ones).

How many cases are there in the UK awaiting boards?

Right now? About 150 I guess.

I seemed to recall before I went on holiday a debate of now many cases were to be flown to the UK and now many by boat.


Are these the same cases that are sitting in China or are those safely in the UK?

Those are the same :(


The guys told us the cases will be ready... of course they weren't :(

The nubs testing just seems to never end and without the nubs the boards are not being made.

No, that has changed. Boards are being produced and tested without nubs. So as soon as the nubs arrive, they only need to be soldered on the boards and then it's off.


The production is not on hold until the nubs arrive.

What is the ETA on the nub testing? This is a hole in the grand scheme of things.


I'm just trying to fathom out that could still hold up the remainder of the production of batch 1.

Hard to say. Their first new protoype was already way better than the nubs we had. Last week they got a second, slightly changed protoype which they are testing right now.


If that one works fine, it's time for mass production. If it doesn't, they need a third prototype.


Testing can't be done in one day, they need to stresstest them, test the material, etc.


This takes a while, but we shouldn't speed it up, as we don't want another batch of totally broken nubs.


Still, if they deliver the new nubs within the first week of October, all boards would be finished until October 18th, as simply soldering the nubs on doesn't take much time.


I'll keep you updated as soon as I get more infos from the companies :)
 
Those are the same :(


The guys told us the cases will be ready... of course they weren't :(

Do we have better proof this time that they're actually ready? You mentioned trying for photos.


Is there a date set for their arrival yet?

No, that has changed. Boards are being produced and tested without nubs. So as soon as the nubs arrive, they only need to be soldered on the boards and then it's off.

Don't they still need to do some kind of tests to make sure the nubs work on the boards?

If that one works fine, it's time for mass production. If it doesn't, they need a third prototype.


Testing can't be done in one day, they need to stresstest them, test the material, etc.


This takes a while, but we shouldn't speed it up, as we don't want another batch of totally broken nubs.

What's the order of magnitude of time on those stress tests?

Still, if they deliver the new nubs within the first week of October, all boards would be finished until October 18th, as simply soldering the nubs on doesn't take much time.


I'll keep you updated as soon as I get more infos from the companies :)

That's a lot of 'if's and 'should's in there. Is that the absolute best case for them?


So, that's the boards finished on the 18th, add a week (or more) to ship them to the UK, (~25th) and that's 3000 boards or so. I know you said you thought you could do ~100 (maybe ~200?) pandoras a day, so that's at least 15-30 days. Call it the average (3 weeks), and we're talking the middle of November before all the Batch 1 pandoras have been shipped, maybe the end of November before they've all arrived, at *BEST*. Or am I missing something?
 
Not this again :( Those lying bastards really piss me off.

They are ready, we just made the mistake of asking them to make the alterations we have been having to do by hand here, there.


They said it was no problem but then seem to have taken about a month to do it. We could have done them here faster.


Fortunately due to the other teething issues it didn't matter.
 
Do we have better proof this time that they're actually ready? You mentioned trying for photos.


Is there a date set for their arrival yet?

Well, the difference is: They said they will be ready and shipped. Now they told Fatih they are finished and he should organize the transportation.


As long as they are not finished, there's no need to organize the transportation. It was the same with the first 1000: Once they told us we should get them picked up, they were really there.

Don't they still need to do some kind of tests to make sure the nubs work on the boards?

Just an electronical testing if the contacts are there. They have test rigs for that, that does't need much time.

What's the order of magnitude of time on those stress tests?

I don't know exactly what they do, but I know they have built a machine that simulates about 1000 hours of gaming by moving the nub fast in all directions.


Then they electronically check the consistency of the rubber before and after that simulation and they check the resistance.

That's a lot of 'if's and 'should's in there. Is that the absolute best case for them?


So, that's the boards finished on the 18th, add a week (or more) to ship them to the UK, (~25th) and that's 3000 boards or so. I know you said you thought you could do ~100 (maybe ~200?) pandoras a day, so that's at least 15-30 days. Call it the average (3 weeks), and we're talking the middle of November before all the Batch 1 pandoras have been shipped, maybe the end of November before they've all arrived, at *BEST*. Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. They don't ship all boards at once, they ship the boards in batches.


I don't know how many tested nubs were left, but it might be enough for about 500 boards.


As soon as the new nubs arrive, they plan to do weekly shipments of finished boards, so it might be we get 300 - 500 boards per week then.


So production and assembly will run parallel.


So in BEST case, the last boards are finished October 18th, arrive in UK one week later and should have been shipped one week after that.


However, the last 200 units have not been sold, as we needed to keep some for RMAs, so in best case it might even be faster.


While I WANT to believe, I surely don't assume the best case. But even if we only get 300 boards per week from October on. As long as they are all properly built and working, I'm happy, as it would mean we're finished in November.


There's not much we can do, we're ready to assemble the units, and while the companies are trying to work as fast as possible, it doesn't make sense to force them to work even faster - as that would probably lead to faults. We don't need anymore broken nubs or boards, we aim for a consistent, stable working production.
 
Really appreciate this detailed info. It stays detailed here, not derailed as it happened over at GP32X from time to time.


Hoping we can stay on this course.


Peace & Pandora,


Link
 
Many thanks ED and Craig for the answers. I appreciate your time and honesty. You have filled in the gaps of my understanding.


Not overly happy about the cases but no great shock there, nor the nubs, but hey! they're doing what they need to do.


It's the last real unknown in the process. I'll be much happier when the prototype is renamed to mkII.


I think I just need to go and lay down somewhere dark for a while and chill for a bit. I'm getting too excited.
 
Many thanks ED and Craig for the answers. I appreciate your time and honesty. You have filled in the gaps of my understanding.


Not overly happy about the cases but no great shock there, nor the nubs, but hey! they're doing what they need to do.


It's the last real unknown in the process. I'll be much happier when the prototype is renamed to mkII.


I think I just need to go and lay down somewhere dark for a while and chill for a bit. I'm getting too excited.

Heh every time I feel a little low about some Pandora situation I just go and use one for a while... then I remember what an awesome bit of kit it is and why this is all worth it :)
 
Heh every time I feel a little low about some Pandora situation I just go and use one for a while... then I remember what an awesome bit of kit it is and why this is all worth it :)
AHHHH! I DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION!!!! How could you be so cruel? Boo hoo hoo! Now I need therapy as well as a lie down.


:p
 
Really appreciate this detailed info. It stays detailed here, not derailed as it happened over at GP32X from time to time.


Hoping we can stay on this course.

Well, I wished I could've posted so detailed reports over there, too, but it would mostly always lead to a flamefeast.


I feel way better that I can now actually let you guys know what happens.


Cool thing is that gp32x.de has also calmed down, the boards are readable and worth visiting again :D
 
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Well, the difference is: They said they will be ready and shipped. Now they told Fatih they are finished and he should organize the transportation.


As long as they are not finished, there's no need to organize the transportation. It was the same with the first 1000: Once they told us we should get them picked up, they were really there.

Except, I thought they'd told and done that for us, before. Or at least, that's the impression a number of people had:


http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3371

I don't know exactly what they do, but I know they have built a machine that simulates about 1000 hours of gaming by moving the nub fast in all directions.


Then they electronically check the consistency of the rubber before and after that simulation and they check the resistance.

Ooh, sounds fancy.

Yes, you are missing something. They don't ship all boards at once, they ship the boards in batches.


I don't know how many tested nubs were left, but it might be enough for about 500 boards.


As soon as the new nubs arrive, they plan to do weekly shipments of finished boards, so it might be we get 300 - 500 boards per week then.

OK, so they can make 500 more boards, until they need the new nubs. We don't have the cases for those just yet, but they'll hopefully arrive before the nubs are finished, so you can start on those.


But after those 500, There are still ~2500 Pandoras left to make. All are waiting on nubs, which are waiting on the nub company. Once that testing is finished, they can pump all 8000 out in a day (or so), and ship them to the board company. You say the board company can do the nubs themselves really fast ("as simply soldering the nubs on doesn't take much time"), so where's all this parallel working that's going on?

So in BEST case, the last boards are finished October 18th, arrive in UK one week later and should have been shipped one week after that.


However, the last 200 units have not been sold, as we needed to keep some for RMAs, so in best case it might even be faster.

Right, but the first new-nub boards only showed up a week or so earlier. That's 2500 boards since, say (built) Oct 10th, arrived (UK) Oct 17th. You can have those all built and shipped in two weeks?

There's not much we can do, we're ready to assemble the units, and while the companies are trying to work as fast as possible, it doesn't make sense to force them to work even faster - as that would probably lead to faults. We don't need anymore broken nubs or boards, we aim for a consistent, stable working production.

I agree. And I do greatly appreciate your answers. I'm just trying to understand this timeline, but I think there are more delays and waiting that have to be in there than you're willing to admit.
 
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But after those 500, There are still ~2500 Pandoras left to make. All are waiting on nubs, which are waiting on the nub company. Once that testing is finished, they can pump all 8000 out in a day (or so), and ship them to the board company. You say the board company can do the nubs themselves really fast ("as simply soldering the nubs on doesn't take much time"), so where's all this parallel working that's going on?

First, you don't know when the nubs will be finished. If the current prototype is fine, it might be they can send the first 1000 in 1,5 weeks. We don't know yet, we need to wait for any testing results.


Quoting myself from a dev-blog entry from August 26th:

While that happens, I will solder tons of LCD cables, while Craig and his helpers will prepare the cases and the lids for the big batch of boards.

I also know I explained somewhere the steps to produce a Pandora (back at the gp32x.de boards).


Basically, most of the work to assemble a Pandora is BEFORE putting a board in.


The complete lid needs to be assembled, with the LCD cables rolled, CE shielding done, speakers and WiFi antenna attached.


Then the lid will be assembled with the bottom case. DPad, Buttons, Lightpipes, Keymat, etc. will be put in.


These steps need about 12 minutes per unit - and the rest is about 5 minutes per unit.


As we have all the LCDs there already, the cases following probably next week, the rest of those 3000 lids can be prepared while boards are being produced.


That's what will happen in parallel.

Right, but the first new-nub boards only showed up a week or so earlier. That's 2500 boards since, say (built) Oct 10th, arrived (UK) Oct 17th. You can have those all built and shipped in two weeks?

If everything is prepared, we can do 200 units per day. We did that already. So, yes, it would work out.


But that's not even needed - the deadline for the board production has been set to Oct 18th by the company. If they keep their promise it means they will arrive in UK one week later.


And as said: We don't know when the nubs will be there. If we get them within the next weeks, we will get more boards in three weeks, not on October 10th.

I agree. And I do greatly appreciate your answers. I'm just trying to understand this timeline, but I think there are more delays and waiting that have to be in there than you're willing to admit.

Well, as said: This is just the estimation and plan of the board production company.


We still don't know exactly when the nubs will be finished nor if the company really can pull it off.


Someone asked for the BEST case above, and that's what I explained.


Basically, there are two unknown factors which makes a better estimation impossible:


* Can the board company really speed up?


* How long until the nubs are fine?


We will find out about the first factor within the next two weeks, I guess. If they pump out boards, we know it works.


About the second one: It depends how the testing works. It might be mass production can start next week but it also might take three weeks if more changes are needed. No one does know yet. But it's being worked on and we will let you know all news we get regarding this issue.
 
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I agree. And I do greatly appreciate your answers. I'm just trying to understand this timeline.
+1


Given all this info you can not say exactly when new pandoras will be build, so how about say exactly what you can not build?


this i would like to hear:


No new Pandora's will ship for at least X days, reasons stated above.


what is X?
 
+1


Given all this info you can not say exactly when new pandoras will be build, so how about say exactly what you can not build?


this i would like to hear:


No new Pandora's will ship for at least X days, reasons stated above.


what is X?

X is an unknown variable.


Tomorrow, more boards (with tested nubs) should leave Texas. How many? They didn't give us any estimations yet.


100? 200? 500? No one knows.


About 200 can be built without the next batch of cases to arrive. If the cases will be picked up tomorrow (that's what Fatih is trying to organize), they will be ready next week.


After that, how long before we can resume building?


Also unknown, as it depends on how fast the nubs will work.


Are the current ones fine? Than maybe we can resume building two weeks later. And if the board company keeps their promise, we could get up to 500 finished boards per week then.


It all comes down to the two right now unknown factors: When will the nubs be ready and will the board company be able to do so many boards per week?
 
Thanks v much for keeping us up to date guys :)

They are ready, we just made the mistake of asking them to make the alterations we have been having to do by hand here, there.

I guess I'm a bit out of date on the cases - I thought the only alteration was boring out the holes to fit the painted shoulder buttons - and if they didn't paint the shoulders that alteration wouldn't need to be made.
 
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