GPD WIN 2


Caine

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The stuff on the mainboard is nothing that's tied to any CPU.

We've got a normal keyboard controller, power and charging circuit, some devices (like sensors, etc.) using standard SDIO and GPI connections, MIPI for display and stuff like USB ports where the pins go directly onto the CPU board.
The mainboard makes an assumption about how many ports and of which type are supported though (USB, OTG, SATA, HDMI, etc.). That is still CPU specific. Most processors will support the ports provided on the mainboard (except maybe the OTG?).

Unfortunately, it does not work the other way around. You will not be able to utilize additional ports supported by the CPU unless you redesign the whole thing (mainboard & casing). You would need a backplate and daughterboard for the ports for that. That would be very challenging in such a form factor.
 

txus

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The mainboard makes an assumption about how many ports and of which type are supported though (USB, OTG, SATA, HDMI, etc.). That is still CPU specific. Most processors will support the ports provided on the mainboard (except maybe the OTG?).

Unfortunately, it does not work the other way around. You will not be able to utilize additional ports supported by the CPU unless you redesign the whole thing (mainboard & casing). You would need a backplate and daughterboard for the ports for that. That would be very challenging in such a form factor.

Yeah. For example, AFAIK, the 7y30 used in the Win 2 doesn't support MIPI displays.
 

EvilDragon

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Yeah. For example, AFAIK, the 7y30 used in the Win 2 doesn't support MIPI displays.

Oh boy, what has Intel done here?
Well, the MIPI traces are just simple traces, so it would need a new display board as well and that's it.
We're pretty flexible here :)
 

slaeshjag

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I'd hazard a guess that barely anything on the pyra mainboard have drivers on windows. Doesn't mean it can't be done. Some aspects, like the keyboard, does not give a shit about PC standards, in that it doesn't even remotely conform to any standard layout. Create a custom keymap, and it could probably work.
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Oh boy, what has Intel done here?
Well, the MIPI traces are just simple traces, so it would need a new display board as well and that's it.
We're pretty flexible here :)
Either that, or bodge in an eDP to MIPI bridge on the CPU board to keep the interface compatible. Depends on how compatible you want it to be with existing hardware.
 

matzesu

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Strange: I thought you use the USB Interface of the Omap to connekt the Mainboard like a "USB Keyboard and Mouse/Gamepad", and the HDMI Interface to connect the Display Board whit the Omap,

On the Devboard, everything is connectet via USB and HDMI to Display and "User Interface".., but maybe on this scale its more easy to connect everything directly to the OMAP...

On GPD Win, there is a extra Chip, that was made to tell the SOC, that there is a USB Gamepad connectet..
 

Askarus

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Unfortunately X86 is not that simple. I would rather prefer an high end ARM processor.
Of course it has drawbacks and less compaibility but

2 full SD card slots < 1 M.2 SATA3 port: Depends on individual opinion, of course, but I think most people WILL prefer the latter for storage

Right, I do prefer the storage. I don't care much about the speed of my music library.
 

Rami

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Could anyone make an informed guess on how much will it be the cost of a GPD Win 2 at the IndieGoGo campain?
 

ThinkPad

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M.2 SATA 3 > ALL
M.2 NVMe > GOD

Unfortunately WIN2 is limited to SATA 3 only, but still the R/W speeds are several times bigger then UHS-I SDR104,
And the WIN 2 still have one UHS-I SDR104 SD card slot.

A good M.2 2242 MLC SSD is way more cheaper and far more fast then SD card.
 

Grench

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1. 2 full SD card slots < 1 M.2 SATA3 port: Depends on individual opinion, of course, but I think most people WILL prefer the latter for storage

This deserves some additional thought. The Win2 doesn't have a "full sized" M.2 SATA3 port. It is an M.2 2242. Those numbers are important. They translate to 22mm wide and 42mm long. That particular form factor of M.2 is very rare and can be difficult to find. The highest capacity I have seen in one is 256GB. Also, these are RAW boards - no casing. They are NOT designed to be handled or repeatedly swapped. Yes, the M.2 bus is faster than SDXC. Yes, high end brand name M.2 2280 cards are wicked fast - but note that those are 22 mm wide and 80 mm long cards that won't fit in the GPD2. I have no idea how the odd brand named M.2 2242 cards will perform. A 128GB M.2 2242 drive can be had for $70.

SDXC cards are generally waterpoof, designed for handling and can be purchased pretty much anywhere. Quality has gone up considerably over the last 5 years. They are pretty darn fast - though admittedly not in the same league as high end M.2 drives. However, their data density is far superior. SDXC cards in the 512GB spec have been available for quite a while now. Which, if storage is your objective, swap capable SDXC means that you could store a couple of terabytes in a card holder the size and thickness of a stack of 4 credit cards. 1TB SDXC media was announced nearly 2 years ago and a prototype shown, but doesn't exist for purchase still. A fast 128GB SDXC card can be had for $44.

Totaling up the on-device no-chords or big dongles pocketable storage of the three upcoming clamshell devices:
GPD2
256GB M.2 2242
400GB microSDXC
400GB microSDXC in a tiny usb-microSDXC adapter
Total: 1.056TB

Pyra
32GB eMMC
400GB microSDXC
400GB microSDXC in a tiny usb-microSDXC adapter
400GB microSDXC in a tiny usb-microSDXC adapter
512GB left SDXC
512GB right SDXC
Total: 2.256TB

Gemini
64GB eMMC
400GB microSDXC
Total: 0.464TB

We're seeing the mobile clamshell device market getting fragmented into ever smaller niches. The Win2 threw the whole idea of passive cooling out the window for the purpose of speed-at-all-costs to be a Windows gamer's dream. The Planet Computers Gemini is pushing into the pocketable keyboard professionals always-on always-connected niche. Both of them carve a bit out of what was the Pyra's niche. Hopefully more devices leads to broader interest which leads to bigger audience for all of them. A handheld computing revival?
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M.2 SATA 3 > ALL
M.2 NVMe > GOD

Unfortunately WIN2 is limited to SATA 3 only, but still the R/W speeds are several times bigger then UHS-I SDR104,
And the WIN 2 still have one UHS-I SDR104 SD card slot.

A good M.2 2242 MLC SSD is way more cheaper and far more fast then SD card.

Mmm... sorry, have to call a bit of BS on that. Please prove me wrong.
1. Define good M.2 2242. I haven't been able to find many in that form factor of from quality brands.
2. Find some actual benchmarks of M.2 2242 SSD cards at SATA3 speeds.
3. Fastest UHS-I SDR104 media actually does run upwards of 92MB/s sequential reads. You'll need that number to divide into whatever the actual M.2 2242 SATA3 speeds are.
4. Show me ANY M.2 2242 drive in 512GB capacity (largest SDXC card). Now show me one in 1TB - which is what the Pyra has with 2 SDXC slots.
 

CommanderB

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I want to start off by saying that I'm a pre-preorderer for the Pyra, following the development since the beginning, and again definitely want to get it ASAP, since it represents something no GPD can deliver: freedom (as you already said).

Still, I have to object to 2 out of your 3 points:

1. 2 full SD card slots < 1 M.2 SATA3 port: Depends on individual opinion, of course, but I think most people WILL prefer the latter for storage
2. LTE: Nothing to object here, definitely a point for the Pyra I'm also looking forward to.
3. Linux: This is a WIP for both devices, currently and at launch (even for the Pyra, this has been discussed several times in the forums). Talking after launch: The Pyra's HW adaptation will probably be much more optimized in the near future, and the user experience more polished, but the Win 2 will boot Linux just like any other x86_64 machine in the near future too.

Now, talking purely about usability: Pyra + Intel would be a dream... Forget about Windows, I banned that OS from my devices a long time ago (even on my Win), but anyone with a Win will know how awesome it is to be able to have steam (or Dolphin, or PCSX2, ...) on a handheld console format, and something that allows that minus the faults of the original Win definitely has my full support.
Do not forget how much Linux optimization means! Even on x86 the Linux support on GPD devices is bad. Probably the main SOC has a good support, but what about the peripheral devices? Only because Hans de Goede made kernel patches the GPD Pocket is usable under Linux at the moment. (And there are still many problems!) GPDs stock kernel is lacking many features and GPD stopped its support.

Thanks to Nikolaus and the community I expect a much better Linux experience on the Pyra

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fusion_power

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If you're asking this question, you haven't fully understood the concept of the Pyra yet:
The stuff on the mainboard is nothing that's tied to any CPU.

We've got a normal keyboard controller, power and charging circuit, some devices (like sensors, etc.) using standard SDIO and GPI connections, MIPI for display and stuff like USB ports where the pins go directly onto the CPU board.

Those are all standard connections. Think about them like USB devices on your PC:
Can you still use your USB keyboard or other USB devices when you change the CPU?

Yes, some drivers would probably need to be changed, but overall, there are only standard components on the mainboard, the magic happens on the CPU board.
I guess I know the Pyra concept after all the years and I really appreciate it by the way.. Yes, I just meant stuff like hardware compatibility and drivers. Like the Wifi/LTE stuff, the handling of the screen (rotation stuff, you know) and general working in such a small device. CPU board is tiny, would the x86 environment fit there? RAM, Bios chip, whatever?
 

Grench

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@Grench: "The highest capacity I have seen in one is 256GB.":

Can't confirm this, just ordered a 512 GB 2242. And don't forget, you can also use the USB-C port with a USB stick or whatever you want.

512GB 2242? Cool - who makes it?

In the above model, using a USB stick that extends out of the device in such a way to make it unpocketable is forbidden. For the microSDXC to USB type A adapters, these keep it pocketable:

Once you get past 'pocketable', then you may as well drag a multidrive DAS array along.
 

NOP

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The main reason i want to by the pyra over the win2 are:
- modem (i want to replace my smartphone and need internet)
- linux works out of the box (including all the tricky thinks like screen brightness controls etc.)

I have no need for any windows machine at the moment.
If it supports linux and i mean some debian based distro that runs stable enough for daily use, I might buy one to.
 

crazyhorse

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mr.white

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vcoleiro1

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Yeah, a M.2 2242 SSD card is mulitiple time faster than uSD or even emmc. GPD put out some stats showing the seq read/write speed of a 512GB M.2 2242 Transcend SSD card.

seq read of 550MB/s
seq write of 450MB/s


Much much faster than even emmc


[


..
 
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