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ZX Vega +

Discussion in 'Everything else' started by Fzero, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Well, the leaker has now posted what he claims is all RCL's bank account statments/transactions from before the IGG campaign ended in early March 2016 until mid July 2017. IGG campaign ended late March 2016. It shows the money comming in from IGG and Paypal and then out again over time to various expenses including wages and lawyers. Payments from original Vega console sales are aslo seen coming in, and then out again to expenses/wages/lawyers etc. There is payments in there to SMS in May 2016 etc, but the leaker claims it was to repay debt rather then make the Vega+. If real and if they don't have a second account with money from elsewhere. And if those SMS payents were for debt repayment, then it doesn't look good.

    The leaker has been tweeting RCL's lawyers asking them to make sure RCL have money before doing anymore work for them as they believe they don't have any. Which is probably not the case, as money from original Vega sales was seen to be going into the account regularly. Not sure if there was a fraud case opened to start with, but they also tweeted the police asking them to update backers on fraud investigations into RCL. . Anyway, it's getting really nasty.

    RCL had said in the last updates that the Vega+ would ship around/by Oct 5th and be in backers hands by Oct. They also said there would be further updates and pics leading upto delivery - so far there has been nothing. Will be interesting to see what happens by mid next month (roughly 3 weeks away)

    EDIT: And now this:

    http://retro-computers.co.uk/videos/video/52
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  2. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    1) David Levy fought a court case against a refund small claim, stating that they didn't have to give refunds as per Indiegogo. This was there court defense: https://www.rllmukforum.com/index.p...o-fundraiser/&do=findComment&comment=11621616

    Frankly, that is just horse shit. This is from Indiegogo Terms of Use:

    "Campaign Owners are legally bound to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks). Indiegogo does not recognize any third party and/or agency affiliated with the Campaign as a Campaign Owner. If a Campaign Owner is unable to fulfill any of its commitments to Contributors (including delivery of any Perks), the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include refunding Contributions. Please note that if Campaign funds have been disbursed to the Campaign Owner, then it is the Campaign Owner's responsibility to issue refunds to Contributors."

    Also of interest:

    "Campaign Owners will respond promptly and truthfully to all questions posed to them by Indiegogo or any Contributor. Campaign Owners will provide substantive and quality updates at least once a month to their Contributors"

    "This commitment includes shipping Perks to Indiegogo Contributors before fulfilling any orders received after the Campaign has ended"

    Source:
    https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms

    2) Well after making updates in August and Sept stating that RCL aimed to ship the Vega+'s to backers by Oct 5th and then have them in the hands of backers by mid Oct. They have now instead released this update: www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=mjHVns-zMVQ . That video in their update is discracefull and what seems to be a reaction to the small claims. Why they cannot fulfill the barest minimum of Indiegogo's communictaion requirements is beyond me. IGG requires they update backers once a month at minimum, even then they are meant to be "substantive and quality updates". A slap in the face to be frank. It poorly shows a translucent plastic part being made via injection moulding. Given the hint (B) and a closer look at the video, it appears the buttons are being made (but really it could be anything). Why translucent , unless it's a prototype run?.

    3) In the smnall claims reply by RCL, they state they are still testng and debugging the SW . But their IGG updates say they should have them in backers hands by now .

    4) Lee Fogarty has now left the project and has made a long and pretty telling statement:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/WorldOfSpectrum.org/permalink/1994392157502113/


    Doesn't look good
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  3. erico

    erico Advanced Member

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    Why can´t they create an autonomous country from an indiegogo campaign? :D :D :D Those are just like taxes!
    That is not fair!!
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    That Lee Fogarty FB post looks suspiciously like the shites going to hit the fan and he's trying to distance himself from it.

    No apologies for any of the lies or abuse he's posted.

    It's a pity the campaign didn't have this level of honesty throughout, I think the community would have rallied to get the device manufactured.

    Reading the whole of Lees posting I don't think the Vega+ will be worth having when it is eventually released.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  5. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    @Ian J

    Lee's statment was pretty bad. I don't know where they go from here. There is only Levy, Suzzane , Janko and Clives company left now . Clive has had no input into it for a long while by the looks of it. Janko is busy on his own campaign -> Gemini PDA. That leaves just Suzzane and Levy.
     
  6. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Would it be okay if you or someone posted the content of Lee's FB post here? I can't see it as it's behind an FB login.
     
  7. pmprog

    pmprog Advanced Member

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    Just follow the rllmuk link, it's on there too as screen shots
     
    levi likes this.
  8. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    Or the Vega + unofficial news site, it has the whole sordid story.

    http://retro-computers.co.uk/daily-blog/
     
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  9. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Well I have said this a few times that a crowdfunding perk (unless otherwise stated in the perk) forms a contract of sale. Iv'e also said that Indiegogo's terms state you are legally bound to deliver.

    In case people were not convinced of all that. Here is a backer that just won a small claim against RCL. Note what the judge says

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/...urt_case_refund_retro_computers_zx_vega_plus/
     
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  10. ZXDunny

    ZXDunny Deep avatar

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    Many people are now predicting the imminent folding of RCL to prevent a rash of small claims against them. I think that's probably realistic.

    It would seem that Andrews is the more trustworthy of the split, and it remains to be seen if the Gemini delivers - there's considerable reason to be wary.
     
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  11. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Yep, small claims or a class action is the only thing I see in their future.

    Got to laugh at what David Levi said to the judge in regards to why he didn't attend the small claims hearing. He said that if he turned up, trolls might have chopped his cock off. Who says things like that
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  12. ible

    ible Advanced Guard Tower

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    people who are very concerned about their bird being properly attached...
     
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  13. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    In case it's not clear to others, you're not referring to me. My nick is not my surname, and I'm not named after anyone else's surname either. It has a more poetical origin, and then got abbreviated to what it is now.
     
  14. ZXDunny

    ZXDunny Deep avatar

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    Apparently, there's a very good chance that Levy is no longer in control of his own email address. Now, whether or not that's what was used in communication with the judge is anyone's guess, but having met him personally I'd say it's a very, very odd thing for him to come out with.

    Very much not his mode of speech.
     
  15. darkborn

    darkborn Member

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    Actually Mr Sexy Robot revealed himself finally imo.
    You forgot this:
    D. Levy: "I will ruin you, I will ruin you both, I have done it before, I will do it again!" (to Paul Andrews and Chris Smith, co-founders). Aka true Levy.
    http://zxvega.co.uk/david-levy-i-will-ruin-you-i-will-ruin-you-both/

    Then he made famous (false)
    Statement by Dr David Levy, Chairman of Retro Computers Limited.
    (...in Levy's common known "posh style")
    http://web.archive.org/web/20160902...vid-levy-chairman-of-retro-computers-limited/

    ^ ...a statement on the RCL website claiming that RCL are investigating financial irregularities ( > Paul & Chris stealing money, for "failed The 64 Project") and that RCL are pursuing legal proceedings to recover funds.
    This statement turns out to be completely untrue, as the BBC will later investigate and find no proof of any of these claims.

    (In the meantime, TheC64 Mini is already in production, selling starts March 28, 2018. Vega+ is nowhere.)


    > Apparently, there's a very good chance that Levy is no longer in control of his own email address

    Apparently, there's a very good chance that
     
  16. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    How typical, RCL lose a small claims case and have to refund someone, the flood gates then begin to open . At the same time Indiegogo tells them they have till May or they will start taking action against RCL.

    And as per always, oh, a new Indiegogo update saying they will deliver in April.

    It's a joke at this stage.

    I hope by some way they do deliver, but yeah not looking good.

    Well at least this puts a deadline to the fiasco


    BBC Article -> www.bbc.com/news/technology-42943355
     
  17. ZXDunny

    ZXDunny Deep avatar

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    I don't think that RCL are at all worried about a mass rush of court cases to get refunds, as no precedent has been set and each case would have to be judged on its own merits - nobody is going to be able to wander into court and say "well, he got one, so I should too!"

    That's not how it works. But yes, the timing of the update is interesting. I'd also like to see what possible action IGG can take against RCL - and have IGG successfully prosecuted that sort of action before against a UK company?

    We're in for a few interesting months, I think.
     
  18. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    If IGG take court action against RCL and presumably win, have they said they'll be refunding the funders directly? If not, I'd suggest anyone gets a claim for a refund in like yesterday already, because if they get sued you're not going to see that money again, and neither are you going to see a new handheld.
     
  19. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Got to remember though, everyone is now talking class action. And there is a precedent in that the judge counted the IGG perk as a contract of sale. Anyway, I'm sure the IGG action and deadlines have more to do with it.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2018 ---

    IGG have talked recently about cracking down on campaigns like this, I presume this will be one of there first endevours to try out this new policy. They said they would use third party debt collectors/agency
     
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  20. ZXDunny

    ZXDunny Deep avatar

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    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/01/indiegogo_refund_judgment_not_precedent/

    This is pretty much spot on. There is no precedent set by anyone currently, and each case would have to be fought. Unfortunate, but given that RCL have not closed their doors and legged it post-haste, that can only mean that either they do indeed have enough funds to pay refunds (and costs) or that they already know this. Personally, I suspect the latter.

    That might be more difficult than you'd think - according to information commonly found on the 'net (which may or may not be correct), some of the current owners of RCL are very difficult to track down. Certainly if it came to that there would be nobody to collect from at the address registered for the company.
     

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