Craigix Discloses Information On New Gp2x?


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I have to say that some of these d-pad designs are interesting. One thing I would like to say is to look at the Sega Nomad. I still own one and used it yesterday. I swear to God it has the best feeling and responsive d-pad I've ever used. If you could please look at designing one similar to that. I don't know if sega has it pattented (I'm assuming yes) but it really is the best d-pad I've ever used next to the sega saturn controller.
 
Iorgy77 said:
Orkie said:
DaveC said:
What are these great 3D games that you must have that is worth ruining everything else? Quake? an few FPS games?
How would having an analogue input as well as a digital one ruin anything? It'd only ruin it's purity in your eyes.


I dont think he can grasp this one point dont waste your time on him Orkie..


Actually it is you two that don't grasp the point. You don't seem to grasp how the systems both work and the limitations of each. Stating that you can just emulate a digital with an analog (and have good control) is naive. While I am not against maybe having one analog nub (no stick poking out) maybe on the right and a D-pad on the left, having ONLY analog control (as Squidge eluded to) would be disastrous.

A basic explanation of the two:

A d-pad will travel a set distance when pressed. When it hits the limit it will make contact and stop. As SOON as you take pressure off of the D-pad contact will be broken. This "band" of go/no-go is often a fraction of a mm. This gives very precise control as the time needed to go from not-made to made and visa versa is very small. This zone is always in the same spot too.

With an analog "emulating a digital" it is much different. If you program it to make connection at the limits of the travel so that you have a tactile stop the dead zone will be very large. No good as it will take too long to change direction.

So now you can program it so the dead zone is reduced and reduce the travel needed to make the connection. So great, what is the problem you say? Well since the stick can now OVERTRAVEL past the "go zone" until you hit the physical stop you are still travelling a large distance. While you are over travelling your game char. etc is still moving. Now say you want to stop moving or change direction? Well now you have to move back through that large band that you just (over)traveled before you can stop moving. This band is HUGE compared to that of a pad or D-stick. This takes time, and this extra time needed reduces precise movement. The other problem is that while playing you will move the analog into that zone in varying amounts. So the "go/no-go" band will be ever changing depending on how deep you moved into it, you just can't get a good feel for when to start and stop moving. This has you thrashing wildly on the stick trying to seek the direction you actually want. You don't have time in many games to do this. The other problem is that it is very hard to tell when you are going to hit a diagonal as all directions feel the same.
Try playing Ms-pac man or something similar that needs precision and fast direction changes just to test this. Try climbing a ladder in Donkey Kong. Even if you don't care about those games at all it does illustrate a point, the effect will be there for the ones you DO like. You will see right away why this just doesn't work.

Analogs work for stuff designed for it because when you move it *any* amount you will see a reaction which usually gets more intense the farther you press it. It is this instant feedback and the fact that the game is designed for this that makes them work in this case.
 
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um ... I thought it was already confirmed by Craigix; the unit will have a "proper D-Pad" ...
 
quartercast said:
And I thought it was confirmed by ED that the unit WON'T have an analog joystick...
This sounds like it does. And it sounds like it has analog only (the zodiac did). They are all together with this too I think. Or it could be just BS. Who the hell knows anymore.

Squidge said:
I think if you point out a relatively powerful (>300Mhz) 3D console thats open source, people will. However, no such console exists yet, but it will shortly, hopefully. We know you prefer vertical mame games to 3D games, but you are in the minority, get used to it.

Therefore I see no problem in having an analog joystick that can emulate a digital one for certain applications - best of both worlds, just like on the Zodiac.

;)
Eolair said:
Spy footage revealed:

spyfotagekq0.jpg


Just kidding :p
That is nice, could work well. Kind of a "Sony Milo" or OQO type thing. It would probably realistically need to be a bit larger not to be cramped. This style is nice. I would buy that.
 
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DaveC said:
quartercast said:
And I thought it was confirmed by ED that the unit WON'T have an analog joystick...
This sounds like it does. And it sounds like it has analog only (the zodiac did). They are all together with this too I think. Or it could be just BS. Who the hell knows anymore.




I'm sure ED said it will only have a d-pad and touchscreen. 3D accel has also been locked in. Basically there's no point debating about these two issues here any longer. If you have major gripes with these, why not contact the developers themselves? Most of the people you're debating with are not devs for this unit; arguing with them won't make any progress.
 
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DaveC said:
quartercast said:
And I thought it was confirmed by ED that the unit WON'T have an analog joystick...
This sounds like it does. And it sounds like it has analog only (the zodiac did). They are all together with this too I think. Or it could be just BS. Who the hell knows anymore.
I'm praying that analog is a "yes"...
 
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hmm if someone in the know said that there's no analog stick then that's that i guess.

it's disappointing though because it opens up some functionality for very little extra financial cost and probably no cost to ergonomics, assuming it's on the opposite side from the d-pad and below where the thumb could graze it.

plus, i'm not really getting the analog bashing. i think people figure that it symbolizes something unsavory, like the large amount of derivative first person shooters on the market. i don't even like those games myself, except quake a little bit. but a lot of people do get into them, and enjoy them as much as i enjoy other things, so why close that off? it's a big part of the video game market.

or maybe the opposite is true...a handheld with just a d-pad feels like a victory against the current trends.

but the practical reality is that it's interesting and usable technology, an alternate control scheme that will be helpful in many applications.

for instance, why hammer down the button to accelerate in a racing game? why not use an analog stick to cover the full range of the gas pedal? or even better, use it for turning?

i've admitted and will repeat that i was not thinking clearly when i suggested that an analog could do what a d-pad does. it will respond much differently, i had forgotten that.


i hope there is still some room to consider the inclusion of an analog control (although i don't know, maybe they do cost a lot, but how much could it be?), especially as there are some really cool low profile designs out there. also, i think that the exclusion of one will hurt potential sales, so one would hope there's a decent reason for it.
 
MWeston said:
Exophase said:
You guys assuming that KeyBoard Cowboy is Epicenter do realize that Epicenter was pushing the MMSP2+ like crazy as the SoC for the XGP...

Personally I don't really like Magic Eyes either, but I've been told that they're basically the only realistic choice. I'll leave it to craig to explain why, unless he gives me the go-ahead to repeat what he told me.

What I'd love to see is a handheld with an ARM A8 Cortex (at a decent clockspeed, say 800MHz or higher). That'd be very nice.
I know for fact how limited a small company can be when it comes to choosing from these new and powerful processors. In fact it seems to be the same with Wifi/Bluetooth modules as well and hopefully Craig (and team) have found good low volume sources for these parts without that ridiculous third-party mark up that seems to be the only option.

My first and current favorite choice for a processor is the OMAP3430 with the A8 Cortex core, but according to my TI Sales Rep, if I want to make a design with that chip, I need to commit to buying 20,000 pieces per MONTH!!! A chip like this is going to cost $30 each in high volume, at least (especially with memory stacking options) and I don't know about any of you, but I don't have $600k lying around each month for processors! ;)


Yeah, it's such a sad story that we can't utilize these awesome new CPUs... and none of the utilizers want to make the thing gaming friendly. Would it kill Nokia's Linux device line to give it some gaming controls? Like, a real dpad and some buttons on the right side? Those kinds of controls are good for other things in general too, so I don't know why no one wants to invest the extra few dollars in it when it'd definitely garner some more sales. Isn't that the one big thing that's separating them from us?

Even worse, look at PocketPC's like Dell Axim x50v+ (I know they've stopped the line but consider similar ones too). They go so far as to have 3D acceleration and are still lousy controle-wise for most games! Hell, one of these companies can probably offer a gamer's version, or some kind of docking layout. You know, like every Korean and Chinese PMP doubles as a perfectly viable gaming device, but is all but completely unavailable here (save for the GP2X itself), so what's the deal?

I wish there was some eccentric billionaire to fund something like this. And that there weren't laws against practically giving them away (although I don't know how these work). Then you could do an incredible machine that could probably steal the handheld market from both Sony and Nintendo just by using top of the line existing hardware. That'd be pretty funny anyway. A handheld that costs like $50 and is three times as powerful as PSP. Of course, the demand would get completely out of hand, it'd take one of the richest people in the world to make it happen, but they could probably all but take over the market.
 
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SoCs like the i.MX31 or lower-end models from TI's OMAP series (that still contain high-clocked ARM9 processors, FPUs, 2D/3D accelerators and programmable DSPs) can be purchased for under $30 each in rather small quantities. The MMSP2+ might just have been selected as a snap decision to "succeed the GP2X" due to its use of the MMSP2. In the long run though, it does not make very much sense-- especially considering the poor documentation of MagicEyes parts.
 
If there was no Nintendo, Sony, etc...who would you emulate? ;)

I like Craig's handheld. It allows me to work on polishing up psx4all more so than the constant figuring out ways to inch performance up. Imagine OpenTTD and DOSBox as well. This seems to only be a good natural step up from the GP2X. Don't squash the handheld before it's out. :)

EDIT: KeyboardCowboy...Where can I get a i.MX31 for less than $30 in "low quantities"? Link? Pricesheet?
 
zodttd said:
If there was no Nintendo, Sony, etc...who would you emulate? ;)

I like Craig's handheld. It allows me to work on polishing up psx4all more so than the constant figuring out ways to inch performance up. Imagine OpenTTD and DOSBox as well. This seems to only be a good natural step up from the GP2X. Don't squash the handheld before it's out. :)

EDIT: KeyboardCowboy...Where can I get a i.MX31 for less than $30 in "low quantities"? Link? Pricesheet?
Yeah, I'd like to see this as well. I was talking to someone who was doing this as well and he said that only MES allowed the low quanities that he was looking at for the low pricepoint.

I'd be interested to know who else quotes as low as MES in low quantaties.
 
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KeyboardCowboy said:
SoCs like the i.MX31 or lower-end models from TI's OMAP series (that still contain high-clocked ARM9 processors, FPUs, 2D/3D accelerators and programmable DSPs) can be purchased for under $30 each in rather small quantities. The MMSP2+ might just have been selected as a snap decision to "succeed the GP2X" due to its use of the MMSP2. In the long run though, it does not make very much sense-- especially considering the poor documentation of MagicEyes parts.
Sorry, but you're "too late". Your posts are getting repetitive and increasingly irrelevant. A decision has already been made - it's time for all of us to respect this choice and move on. I hope you can find solace in the fact that this device is being designed by very knowledgeable and patient individuals, i.e. they know what they are doing. Give them some encouragement, suggestions and most of all - space!
 
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QUOTE
Sorry, but you're "too late". Your posts are getting repetitive and increasingly irrelevant. A decision has already been made - it's time for all of us to respect this choice and move on. I hope you can find solace in the fact that this device is being designed by very knowledgeable and patient individuals, i.e. they know what they are doing. Give them some encouragement, suggestions and most of all - space!


Agreed.

Well let me elaborate. Why agree with someone who said we can't get even 5 FPS in the impossible PSX emulator? Or perhaps we should listen to someone who has a grudge with Craig and can't get Stargazer to work on the GP2X.

Stargazer, no. PS1's Strikers 1945, yes. Excuse me while I play Oddworld with sound and no interlacing.
 
zodttd said:
Look's nice in the specs.
I think the MMSP2+ (if that's what the new machine is based on) will be a lot of fun to play with. I'm sure you're looking forward to having the muscle under the hood to get your emulator running perfectly!
 
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