Minor Re-payment / Preordering Update


Chip

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spaceballs3000 said:
CHIP you are such a tool, to labeling the title as "Minor....'.

This isn't a minor thing in any shape or form, there are lots of people (with common sense) that are not going to use any other method than CC. Thus CC customers will not get one until Craig has enough working spending cash to buy the parts outright, and that is going to take them a while. (my guess is 6+ months from now.)
If you don't want to reorder via bank transfer, check or money order, then don't. But if you can't post in a civil or reasonable fashion then your posting privileges will be revoked.
 
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Chip said:
spaceballs3000 said:
CHIP you are such a tool, to labeling the title as "Minor....'.

This isn't a minor thing in any shape or form, there are lots of people (with common sense) that are not going to use any other method than CC. Thus CC customers will not get one until Craig has enough working spending cash to buy the parts outright, and that is going to take them a while. (my guess is 6+ months from now.)
If you don't want to reorder via bank transfer, check or money order, then don't. But if you can't post in a civil or reasonable fashion then your posting privileges will be revoked.
Chip I have a simple question for you.

Q: Do you think people visiting the forum seeing the thread labeled "Minor Re-payment / Preordering Update" who find out they can't order via CC a "Minor" thing?
 
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Chip

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spaceballs3000 said:
Do you think people visiting the forum seeing the thread labeled "Minor Re-payment / Preordering Update" who find out they can't order via CC a "Minor" thing?
Anybody who has been reading the forums for the last week is already aware that is the situation. I'm just clarifying how it is being handled.
 
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Chip said:
spaceballs3000 said:
Do you think people visiting the forum seeing the thread labeled "Minor Re-payment / Preordering Update" who find out they can't order via CC a "Minor" thing?
Anybody who has been reading the forums for the last week is already aware that is the situation. I'm just clarifying how it is being handled.

Not sure if you answered my question yet, Yes? No?
Q: Do you think people visiting the forum seeing the thread labeled "Minor Re-payment / Preordering Update" who find out they can't order via CC a "Minor" thing?

What about people who don't read the forums often? This topic has be pinned, so it sits on the top, so all new readers will likely read this first, and it will be new news to them. Do you think to them this would be 'Minor' thing?
 
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Chip

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Yes, it is a minor update to a known issue. Now please stop trying to create controversy where none exists.
 
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Chip said:
Yes, it is a minor update to a known issue. Now please stop trying to create controversy where none exists.

Chip you are the PR guy, and I feel what and how you say to customers is important. When I read ‘Minor’, I thought that you were misleading to new readers; but as stated in your view it wasn’t, so I’ll leave it be, as you’re the only one that has control over the thread title.

Personally I am glad not to you be in your shoes, because of liability. Say a random act of god; say all dev’s are in a car accident and can’t finish (but money all spent already.) People in the US are very litigious (I’ve spent my fair share on lawyers) and I’ve seen people go after the first closest thing, in which in your case would be you, since you’re in the US. I know that sounds crazy, but I’ve personally seen worse happen.

I’m sorry you think I’m trying to create controversy from nothing; but I call it as I see it.
 
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lobski

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I have no options available to me besides a credit card transaction. Do I really need to wait 4-5 months? No other choice what so ever?
 

cosurgi

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lobski said:
I have no options available to me besides a credit card transaction. Do I really need to wait 4-5 months? No other choice what so ever?
You can ask one of your friends or family members to make a bank transfer from their account. And give them back the money that you got from your refund. Remember that OpenPandora team covers the transfer fee. So you basically don't lose any money. In fact you only lose a little bit of time to organize this transfer with your friend.

I did exactly that - I asked my brother to pay for me. And I gave him the money.

I made a choice: I didn't want OpenPandora to lose money due to transfer fees or due to currency exchange rates changing, I made a decision to pay a bit more. But if you do so, it's entirely up to you.
 
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Chip

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lobski said:
I have no options available to me besides a credit card transaction. Do I really need to wait 4-5 months? No other choice what so ever?
As of right now, we can only accept bank transfers, checks and money orders. I suppose there is also the option of flying to England and handing over a wad of cash.

We may be able to come up with a better solution in less than 4-5 months, but I can make no guarantees.
 
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Karel Jansens

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cosurgi said:
lobski said:
I have no options available to me besides a credit card transaction. Do I really need to wait 4-5 months? No other choice what so ever?
You can ask one of your friends or family members to make a bank transfer from their account. And give them back the money that you got from your refund. Remember that OpenPandora team covers the transfer fee.
They didn't cover my transfer fee, back in early december.

Then again, stupid me never whined about it, but just coughed up the dough...
 
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lobski

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Chip said:
lobski said:
I have no options available to me besides a credit card transaction. Do I really need to wait 4-5 months? No other choice what so ever?
As of right now, we can only accept bank transfers, checks and money orders. I suppose there is also the option of flying to England and handing over a wad of cash.

We may be able to come up with a better solution in less than 4-5 months, but I can make no guarantees.
Hmm.

I didn't do enough digging around about Bank Transfers. I suppose the info we need will be sent by email soon to me? After I've sent the money through a bank transfer, how will you guys know which order number I am?


OK I checked under my online banking, and I have an "Interac (debit) Email Money Transfer)... Anyone know if it's domestic only or international? I am in Canada using BMO btw.
 
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MaxSteiner

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I'm confused.... does this superceed the earlier promise we were given by Open Pandora ltd that our place in the line was secure?
Because I'm fairlry certain some very strong claims were made to the effect that we wouldn't lose our place....

I'm not sure I understand really I've held up my part of the bargain regarding preorders, I paid the cash, I kept my cool, I've ignored the fact that the only email Open Pandora has ever sent me was a confirmation of my payment, or that all the promised updates haven't appeared for what ever reason.
And now, because I am unwilling throw my money at the team and pay via Bank transfer, someone else is going to get my place in the line?

Not entirely happy to be honest.
Does the cut off point on ordering via a non secure, and widely disparaged form of payment come BEFORE or AFTER we see the finished Pandora?
Because even ordering by check for something which styill doesn't exist seems a bit off too me.

I honestly don't mind people willing to pay via nonsecure means getting a Pandora first if it helps production continue, thats more important than the place in the line I fought tooth and nail for durring the whole preorder debacle.
But I am at a complete loss as to what the point of the entire preorder process was (especially since many of the delays could have been avoided by reading the terms and conditions of the system being used!) other than getting our money early (which we were repeatedly told wasn't needed to pay for production!)...
 

gruso

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From Craig:

"So soon we will have a cut off date and then manufacture the Pandoras paid for to that point. We don't really have a choice in this, it's the only way forward which will work in a safe way.

The final prototype Pandora (ie the last one before mass production) will be shown before the cut off date"

Source: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry690302

Also,

"Your original order price will still stand if you decide to order in the future (ie maybe in 4-6 months when we hope to have merchant numbers). You will get the fast track treatment at that point."

Source: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=46235&hl=
 
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MaxSteiner

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The original order price is not the same as a secure place in the line though is it>?
In fact, its nothing like that! All that is, is a commitment that I would pay the same price when I reorder, potentially 6 months down the line...
Never mind the fact that its already been said that the original order price wont be the same if I order by CC, they're adding the fees to the price of units paid for by card. (Which I predict is going to cause the production even more problems down the line....)

I'm assuming, since those were the best two quotes you could find, that my place in the line isn't secure then.
The only thing which is secure is my preorder status it seems, although the OP here seems to imply that not even that is secure, and that CC places will be resold to people willing to use Bank transfer...
 

gruso

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QUOTE
"Never mind the fact that its already been said that the original order price wont be the same if I order by CC, they're adding the fees to the price of units paid for by card."
Now it's your turn to provide a source.

Look, unfortunate as it is, CC orders are just not going to happen any time soon. In order to hold your place in line, everyone who ordered after you would have to wait six months or more. Doesn't make sense, does it?

You can keep your place in line by using an alternate payment method. That's your decision. If CC is the only method you can stomach, then yes, your place in the line is lost.

(Personally I've never understood the obsession with the queue. You order or you don't. But that's just me).
 

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maxSteiner said:
I'm confused.... does this superceed the earlier promise we were given by Open Pandora ltd that our place in the line was secure?
Because I'm fairlry certain some very strong claims were made to the effect that we wouldn't lose our place....
Basically "yes". If, however, you can pay them CASH before the first batch are made you should keep your place in the queue (relative to the others who have kept their places).

maxSteiner said:
I'm not sure I understand really I've held up my part of the bargain regarding preorders, I paid the cash, I kept my cool, I've ignored the fact that the only email Open Pandora has ever sent me was a confirmation of my payment, or that all the promised updates haven't appeared for what ever reason.
And now, because I am unwilling throw my money at the team and pay via Bank transfer, someone else is going to get my place in the line?
Therein lies the rub - you didn't pay your cash (just like I didn't pay mine). We both used a banking system we're familiar with (I'm assuming you were paying by credit card or similar too) where REALLY we were paying with someone else's cash which we would refund. The "someone else" got their money back and OpenPandora can't use it to make the :pandora1: units with :(

maxSteiner said:
Not entirely happy to be honest.
You're not entirely alone :(

maxSteiner said:
Does the cut off point on ordering via a non secure, and widely disparaged form of payment come BEFORE or AFTER we see the finished Pandora?
We have been promised that it will come AFTER we see a finished working Pandora - although that will still likely be a "protottype" of sorts.

maxSteiner said:
Because even ordering by check for something which styill doesn't exist seems a bit off too me.
Again, this is something that has concerned many, myself included.

maxSteiner said:
I honestly don't mind people willing to pay via nonsecure means getting a Pandora first if it helps production continue, thats more important than the place in the line I fought tooth and nail for durring the whole preorder debacle.
At this point it looks likely that, assuming everything is on the up-and-up, pre-order CASH (not credit) is vital to get any :pandora1: 's made.

maxSteiner said:
But I am at a complete loss as to what the point of the entire preorder process was (especially since many of the delays could have been avoided by reading the terms and conditions of the system being used!)
There seem to have been some bad decisions. Outside of being one of the decision makers, it's hard to know why those decision were made. On the face of it, if EVERYTHING had gone swimmingly, and nothing had gone "wrong" (or issues which were not predicted having arisen) then your "point in the queue" was an almost irrelevant bit of one-upmanship. It was a non-substantive bonus to opening your wallet quickly. you can see the same thing every time a Harry Potter book is released, with people camping in ther tents outside stores in order to get THEIR copy of the book as soon as possible. When there was going to be a single 1st manufacturing batch of 3000 or 4000 shipping would likely occur almost simultaneously for them all, so you would have been hard pushed to tell where in the queue you had been from when you got the device - delays in different postal routes would probably have as much if not more effect, I suspect. but it's just nice to know you're 53rd rather than 3264th :D

maxSteiner said:
other than getting our money early (which we were repeatedly told wasn't needed to pay for production!)...
Ah, Well, therein lies the rub. Again. Actually, we were told at least once by ED that the actual manufacturing would be paid with preorder money - but that one post, long ago (sorry I can't find the link) got overwhelmed with various "we don't need preorder money for the components" type comments that eventually people were assuming, and saying, that the OpenPandora team could afford to make the entire batch without preorder money. Chip even came to believe that, somewhere along the line, the rumour was SO pervasive. I think the team could have done more to be upfront about that and correct the misinformation much, MUCH earlier.

Ta

Gruso said:
(Personally I've never understood the obsession with the queue. You order or you don't. But that's just me).
It's a bizzarre piece of human nature - we LOVE to be "one up" on as many others as possible, and loathe anyone doing better than we ourselves do. Look at the rather strange queues that form outside of closed shops overnight when the latest "must have" book or barbie doll is released. Manic.

Queue order can only be reserved for those who are going to pay - with insecure cash. The basic alternative, if no-one is to lose their place to someone else yet not pay cash up front, is to cancel the :pandora1: project. Because they don't have the wonga to make 4000 units, even if they have the parts "lying around".

I suppose Craig could put them together by hand himself, one at a time, but then our place in the queue would be vital, as it would determine which YEAR we received our product in...
 
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MaxSteiner

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To be fair, the queue more about when you might recieve a Pandora isn't it?

I suppose, if I were truly alive in the light of the Pandora, I too can realise that waiting to recieve my Pandora, is infact the same as having it in my hands right now.
I'm just not that philosophical you know :D
 
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