Painting Homebrew For Pandora


I think the most important thing, in order to come close to the functionality of Colors!, is to have settings for what the pressure controls. Colors had settings to control both/either brush size and opacity.

I tried the previously MyPaint out on my PC and must say that I loved it! It had so many brushes. I couldn't try if it had pressure functionality as I have a mouse, but if it has, I would die to see that come to the Pandora!

But of course, if someone can make a program from scratch that kicks ass (or if you just try), you deserve a bucket load of respect ^^
 
Hey I like the looks of this rabidpoobear! Especially the playback/recording feature - thats going to be really nice to play with! :)
 
KarmaSlave said:
I think the most important thing, in order to come close to the functionality of Colors!, is to have settings for what the pressure controls. Colors had settings to control both/either brush size and opacity.

I tried the previously MyPaint out on my PC and must say that I loved it! It had so many brushes. I couldn't try if it had pressure functionality as I have a mouse, but if it has, I would die to see that come to the Pandora!

But of course, if someone can make a program from scratch that kicks ass (or if you just try), you deserve a bucket load of respect ^^
MyPaint seems pretty awesome, no doubt. I hope someone ports it too.

I think the thing about Colors that's really cool is the record / playback. But I think I can do them one better. (personally I've never used Colors so I don't know this for sure if they have this too...) but it seems like if you store every sequence of drawing steps then you might as well have unlimited undo's (as it's basically "reversing" the drawing procedure). So I'll probably go ahead and add that in too.

I think the important thing though is to keep it extremely straightforward and fast. For example, my color picker is fullscreen:
colorpicker.png

(Notice that the color circle is offset from the point of origin - this is so that you can see it even when you're using a stylus. It also offsets from the edges of the screen so the whole color circle is always visible.) (also the red/white circle is the color you currently have selected (in case you want to choose a color "near" your current selection, it makes it easier to target.)

You can switch to the color picker at any time with a single button press and it's all calculated in advance so it loads instantly.

Of course if you're already painting you can just use the eyedropper tool to grab other colors (already added, works fine):
picking_cyan.png

(Cyan is where the mouse is, it is drawing the circle live over the picture as you mouse around so that you can see better which color you've chosen.)

Having the color picker be fullscreen makes it less distracting (it clearly serves one purpose) and also much easier to choose a precise color quickly and accurately (remember our Pandora screen's gonna be quite small, and if it's fullscreen you can't accidentally click on something else.)

As I've mentioned in other threads I strive for the most efficient UI possible when I design a program (from a human interface standpoint, NOT from a computational standpoint) so once I get a pandora and this thing is testable I'll hopefully be able to get some usability input from y'all as well.




Oh and to answer your question, the pressure controlling the brush / opacity dynamically (and being able to toggle them) sure, that's easy, and I agree it's a critical feature. I'll add it in with the transparent brushes. I just didn't specifically mention it but it'll be there soon.

I will also add in the sliders for the brush and opacity. In fact I'll probably just tie these sliders to an analog stick too so you can use either an on-screen slider or just nudge it with the analog stick (since your thumb will be by it anyway, probably, if you're holding it.) I'll probably add mouse / analog panning as well, so you can use whatever's easier.

Brush support is something that should just be natively included (since I'm going to be using images as the brushes anyway so you can just make your own images.) The problem with that is that the playback of the files may not work then if you don't have the original brushes. I'll figure that out later, either have it say "i can't play this back without the proper brushes" or just play it back but with a generic brush in place of the custom one (but then the final image would look different.)

Anyway, off to bed. More tomorrow. (I'm extra-productive right now because I'm deathly ill and I'm having to sit at home all day and watch movies anyway.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kagato said:
The last time a painting topic came up, MyPaint was mentioned, which looks awesome (but I still haven't tried out).

It's very artist-focused, and has a couple of features that should lend itself well to the limited screen real estate on the Pandora -- minimal interface, expanding canvas -- and of course it's open source.

Hopefully someone will port it; but if not I guess I'll have to knuckle down and figure it out myself...

+1, MyPaint looks really good. I have tried it with a wacom-tablet and it has support for pressure sensitivity.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
torpor said:
Hey I like the looks of this rabidpoobear! Especially the playback/recording feature - thats going to be really nice to play with! :)
Thanks Torpor! I'm going to be writing some music software too once I get my pandy but probably not nearly as much / as nice as yours! I hope I can work with you on some of your projects, even if just as a tester / bug reporter. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Awesome RapidPooBear! I really like it.

If the same tools as Colors on the Iphone will be added it will be such an awesome painting program!

EDIT:

MyPaint looks great for Pandora too. It just needs some serious work on the GUI
 
Mithrildor said:
Awesome RapidPooBear! I really like it.

If the same tools as Colors on the Iphone will be added it will be such an awesome painting program!

Um, are the iPhone tools different than the DS tools? Sure, I will add whatever tools are default to Colors. I hope to have this done somewhere around when Pandora launches so I probably won't add too-too many features but I think that reproducing Colors functionality is a good goal.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rabidpoobear: if you have recording/playback support in your paint app, just add a means of changing the tempo of playback, and you've got most of a unique music sequencer implemented .. then you could add "eyedropper" objects to the picture frame, and whenever the color underneath the eyedropper changes, you could trigger samples, or use the color value as input to a little synth, or something .. meaning a musician would 'draw' their music actions on the screen, play it back, and get sound out of it .. ;)

Anyway, just an idea I had. Multiple eyedroppers on the screen would be really cool too..
 
mcobit said:
http://pinta-project.com/

This is a new, opensource Paint.net clone for Linux. Maybe someone want to look into porting it?
Mmmh, I had to use Paint.net for a while at work and I really hated it, it has a lot of nice feature that's out of question, but is also had a low of awefull flaws and missing features (like a proper brush and transparency support). Then again I had to use it to make a flyer in which case it's probably not the best choice anyway. Still I felt that a lot was missing.

Colours or MyPaint look awesome, would be great to have something like that on the Pandora - best with pressure sensitivity support :)
I would also like to see an ArtRage like behaviour with lot's of predefined brushed acting like real pencils, ink pens, choral or watercolour for example.

We probably will have GIMP, but I can imagine it using a lot of CPU and not running properly and smooth while drawing, additionally I never could get used to that user interface...

foxblock out
 
Last edited by a moderator:
foxblock said:
We probably will have GIMP, but I can imagine it using a lot of CPU and not running properly and smooth while drawing, additionally I never could get used to that user interface...
If it's the interface in GIMP that puts you off, perhaps you'd like GimpShop. It's a modification/fork of GIMP that gives it a more Photoshop look and feel.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@rapidpoobear

I think it would be a cool feature if you could select any two colors and use pressure sensitivity to control a gradient between them.

I don't know if colors has this functionality since I've never used it.
 
Lunatic said:
@rapidpoobear

I think it would be a cool feature if you could select any two colors and use pressure sensitivity to control a gradient between them.

I don't know if colors has this functionality since I've never used it.

Well I think Its a great idea to be able to chose 2 colors and using a menu pick something between it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rabidpoobear said:
KarmaSlave said:
I think the most important thing, in order to come close to the functionality of Colors!, is to have settings for what the pressure controls. Colors had settings to control both/either brush size and opacity.

I tried the previously MyPaint out on my PC and must say that I loved it! It had so many brushes. I couldn't try if it had pressure functionality as I have a mouse, but if it has, I would die to see that come to the Pandora!

But of course, if someone can make a program from scratch that kicks ass (or if you just try), you deserve a bucket load of respect ^^
MyPaint seems pretty awesome, no doubt. I hope someone ports it too.

I think the thing about Colors that's really cool is the record / playback. But I think I can do them one better. (personally I've never used Colors so I don't know this for sure if they have this too...) but it seems like if you store every sequence of drawing steps then you might as well have unlimited undo's (as it's basically "reversing" the drawing procedure). So I'll probably go ahead and add that in too.

I think the important thing though is to keep it extremely straightforward and fast. For example, my color picker is fullscreen:

(Notice that the color circle is offset from the point of origin - this is so that you can see it even when you're using a stylus. It also offsets from the edges of the screen so the whole color circle is always visible.) (also the red/white circle is the color you currently have selected (in case you want to choose a color "near" your current selection, it makes it easier to target.)

You can switch to the color picker at any time with a single button press and it's all calculated in advance so it loads instantly.

Of course if you're already painting you can just use the eyedropper tool to grab other colors (already added, works fine):

(Cyan is where the mouse is, it is drawing the circle live over the picture as you mouse around so that you can see better which color you've chosen.)

Having the color picker be fullscreen makes it less distracting (it clearly serves one purpose) and also much easier to choose a precise color quickly and accurately (remember our Pandora screen's gonna be quite small, and if it's fullscreen you can't accidentally click on something else.)

As I've mentioned in other threads I strive for the most efficient UI possible when I design a program (from a human interface standpoint, NOT from a computational standpoint) so once I get a pandora and this thing is testable I'll hopefully be able to get some usability input from y'all as well.




Oh and to answer your question, the pressure controlling the brush / opacity dynamically (and being able to toggle them) sure, that's easy, and I agree it's a critical feature. I'll add it in with the transparent brushes. I just didn't specifically mention it but it'll be there soon.

I will also add in the sliders for the brush and opacity. In fact I'll probably just tie these sliders to an analog stick too so you can use either an on-screen slider or just nudge it with the analog stick (since your thumb will be by it anyway, probably, if you're holding it.) I'll probably add mouse / analog panning as well, so you can use whatever's easier.

Brush support is something that should just be natively included (since I'm going to be using images as the brushes anyway so you can just make your own images.) The problem with that is that the playback of the files may not work then if you don't have the original brushes. I'll figure that out later, either have it say "i can't play this back without the proper brushes" or just play it back but with a generic brush in place of the custom one (but then the final image would look different.)

Anyway, off to bed. More tomorrow. (I'm extra-productive right now because I'm deathly ill and I'm having to sit at home all day and watch movies anyway.)

Nicely done rpb. Any plans for an N900 port? :p Seriously though, I only ask because the tablet layout is a bit more friendly for drawing than the Pandora's clamshell style. It would probably require some UI changes for Maemo, so if you don't have one, I'd understand if you had no interest in doing a port. Of course, I should probably wait till you're finished anyway before asking.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ravnos said:
Nicely done rpb.
Why thank you!
So I just woke up from a Pandora dream. In my dream ED sent me the white CNC pandora. It was too bulky to fit in my pocket and when you closed the lid the buttons would press, and the plastic was cheap and creaky. Pandora's haunting me! - seriously though I'm sure it'll be amazing once it gets here.
Ravnos said:
Any plans for an N900 port? :p Seriously though, I only ask because the tablet layout is a bit more friendly for drawing than the Pandora's clamshell style. It would probably require some UI changes for Maemo, so if you don't have one, I'd understand if you had no interest in doing a port. Of course, I should probably wait till you're finished anyway before asking.

Well let's see how it goes, and if it turns out as cool as it seems like it's going to be, maybe we can start a dev fund and pitch it to the Maemo community. I have an e71 and I love nokia, if we could get enough donations to buy me an n900 I would be so happy and I'd definitely port it (and other Pandora apps I write in the future.)
But that's getting a little ahead of the current project, so we'll just see how the Pandora version goes for now. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lunatic said:
@rapidpoobear

I think it would be a cool feature if you could select any two colors and use pressure sensitivity to control a gradient between them.

I don't know if colors has this functionality since I've never used it.
I agree that does sound cool and I hadn't thought of that. I'll start a thread with feature requests after I get it feature-complete to what Colors! can do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mindlord said:
foxblock said:
We probably will have GIMP, but I can imagine it using a lot of CPU and not running properly and smooth while drawing, additionally I never could get used to that user interface...
If it's the interface in GIMP that puts you off, perhaps you'd like GimpShop. It's a modification/fork of GIMP that gives it a more Photoshop look and feel.
Hey, that really looks great, might give it a try on the Pandora (I got my Photoshop Student licence on the PC...), though I guess it does not solve problems like the (imo) complicated and inflexible brush creation and modifying system (which is much better in PS)...

Also, good work on the Python based drawing tool, looking good already, I like that you don't have any tool windows blocking the little screen space you have (they are probably hidden somewhere). I will be happy when you make every function accessible by HotKeys (so press P for pen tool, C to crop, etc.), that way you can work faster, too.

Drawing with screen pressure will be awesome, like having one of those very expensive Wacoms with a built-in screen (well not that good, but at least it's like it).

foxblock out
 
Last edited by a moderator:
foxblock said:
Also, good work on the Python based drawing tool, looking good already, I like that you don't have any tool windows blocking the little screen space you have (they are probably hidden somewhere). I will be happy when you make every function accessible by HotKeys (so press P for pen tool, C to crop, etc.), that way you can work faster, too.
Yes, currently the tool settings are all hotkey-based already so there's no GUI at all. Eventually I will add transient windows (i.e. if you want to adjust your brush pressure you just nudge the nub and the slider will appear on the screen, or something like this). Basically keep everything out of your way whenever possible. I probably will not have menus where there are a lot of stuff to click except maybe a single one for playback / save / load / exit stuff.
foxblock said:
Drawing with screen pressure will be awesome, like having one of those very expensive Wacoms with a built-in screen (well not that good, but at least it's like it).
yep, I agree. People really liked Colors on DS and that only had 4 levels of pressure IIRC, and I think we'll be able to get 16 on pandora (dunno where I read that.) The Wacom I'm developing on right now has 1024 levels :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rabidpoobear said:
Yes, currently the tool settings are all hotkey-based already so there's no GUI at all. Eventually I will add transient windows (i.e. if you want to adjust your brush pressure you just nudge the nub and the slider will appear on the screen, or something like this).

How about having a large tool pallet appear on the screen when you hold down space or a shoulder button? That way it can be accessed however you're holding the Pandora.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pleng said:
rabidpoobear said:
Yes, currently the tool settings are all hotkey-based already so there's no GUI at all. Eventually I will add transient windows (i.e. if you want to adjust your brush pressure you just nudge the nub and the slider will appear on the screen, or something like this).

How about having a large tool pallet appear on the screen when you hold down space or a shoulder button? That way it can be accessed however you're holding the Pandora.
Yeah that's definitely an option, it depends how many tools are necessary for useful usage. AFAICT Colors only has brush and eyedropper and then a brush settings page. There's not much point in a menu to select between these two tools so long as it's clear which tool you're currently using.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So I'll just leave this here for now....
Screencast of App Demo
comments?
:)
Notice: in color picker the color stays away from the edges, this is kinda jerky and weird looking but it's kinda nice that it doesn't go off the screen. will be changed to something more sensible in the future. Also notice the eyedropper tool.

(Also the event logging system is very robust, you can actually replay exactly how they painted it (Every single motion of the mouse that causes a draw action is timestamped...) but I found out that it's kinda boring because sometimes people sit around for a long time. For this alternate replay setting I will probably just throw away the time delay between events but animate the actual drawing events themselves (maybe compress any delays to a small (say .2 second) amount between events. (basically an Event is the time between when they put the pen down and when they pick it back up. an Action is moving or changing pressure. SO actions occur a lot more often. people will typically issue a bunch of actions (say moving the brush) and then end the event then wait a while (say pick a color) before the next event. So it makes sense to throw away that between-each-event wait but actually simulate the Actions correctly. I'll add this in tomorrow and see how it looks.)))

Tomorrow: transparent brushes, brush size setting (it's a config variable but there's no way in the UI to change it right now.) Possibly an "undo" but I may save this for later.
 
Back
Top