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ZX Vega +

Discussion in 'Everything else' started by Fzero, Feb 16, 2016.

  1. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    @WizardStan, I got your point , I was adding to, and expanding on the discussion + giving my 2 cents worth on things

    With the ICP2 , There were more things blamed than that. Craig claimed that parts that had been quoted to him before the project , had then gone up. I seem to remember ED said at the time that the nubs craig used no longer were going to be made and that required for newer nubs which probably needed a pcb chnage etc. When that happned, Craig didn't have any cash to pay for new firmware to be coded for the new nubs.- this was part of the reasons he gave when the project was canceled. Plus the decision to buy a 3d printer and all the other bad decisions. Plus you had the huge communication issue between the team and the head honcho - remember that.
    On a side note, we still don't know what happened to the cash a certain someone got. And no one knew if he had done anything with his alloted cash. Remember we didn't even know if he had made the molds, clamps etc nor did link or mweston know who said such
    Here's a quote from MWeston after the failure
    " no samples of plastics ever injected through the molds (if they were actually made), no final samples of the dome switch stickers and no clamps (that I ever saw) were the problem. Link even considered finding money elsewhere to try and finish this and reward the backers but it's pointless when none of us STILL don't have any idea if any of these things ever existed."
    Ah those mystical clamps no one really saw much of or knew would work or not.


    But that's not to say feature creep isn't an issue, it is, and might have been a factor for the ICP2. But the biggest factor IMO was the team head honcho. He could have at any point stopped going for the LEDs if that was becomming an issue. You said it yourslef. it was his will to keep going with it. But it was a number of things, some of which I mentioned in the previous paragraph

    That said, there are very few campaigns ive backed where things weren't added. I can't actually think of one I can honestly say nothing was added. But a lot succeeded. To me a much better indicator is the team itself. Everything stems from that - even feature creep - that happens by the decision of the team. . Where Feature Creep causes an issue, it isn't that feature creep is the cause of the issue, it's a symptom of a cause. And that cause is the team itself allowing it and not properly costing it.

    There are varied reasons for campaign failure like:

    Peachy printer, a team member stole $250k allegedly
    Lily drone, team allegedly lied about the thing being a real prototype and mocked up the video. Then apparently didn't know how to make it real after getting a huge amount of cash.

    But the big one:-> People starting things (especially in the older days) with no proper prototype, because they didn't know how to do it themselves. Then expecting the crowdfunding cash to be able to hire people to make something which wasn't costed or even vetted to see if it was realistic in the first place. Most failed or suspect campaigns go into this bucket. PGS, Smach Z (original), Gemini PDA etc etc.


    Then you have campaigns like the Vega+ where there's infighting in the team. Or starting a camapaign based on flexible funding like "The 64" and thinking you can make two console (handheld and home) with $100k.

    The reasons for failure are varied, but I'd say those campaigns that had inexperienced teams and those that didn't have a proper prototype or cost analysis lead the pack in regards to reasons campaigns failed.

    This is why when I look at a crowd funding campaign, I look at the teams experience. Have they got a prototype. Is their device Pie in the Sky. Does their crowdfunding target seem like it could build and deliver the product etc.

    But each to their own opinion
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    Ian J likes this.
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    The LEDs technically never were a problem for the icp2, there never was an LED shortcome. Parts have a lead time (something Craig often ignored, he just thought you can buy everything and get it a week later), and some parts for the production had a longer lead time, it's as simple as that.

    MWeston finished his job, I had the PCBs ready for mass production, but we never ever heard anything about the case or dome caps from Craig. I still have all bare boards lying in my shop...
    He also should've ordered the nubs, but he never did that... and at some time, they weren't available anymore.
    We have no idea why or what happened, as he never really communicated with us.

    My guess is that he simply ran out of money. When I first saw the campaign, I wondered how it would work... also one of the reasons I didn't want to be official part of it.

    With some quick calculations, I found that the production costs he estimated were actually a bit lower than for the original ICP, yet it was more complex and he planned to do the molds in the UK and not China.

    That just didn't add up for me (and clearly also not for him as well).
    Same mistake he made with the Pandora... way too low price.
     
    Ian J and vcoleiro1 like this.
  3. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    Thanks guys VERY interesting reading.

    Hopefully with the passage of time and many more Kickstarter / Indiegogo projects funded the newer campaigns have more of an idea what is required to succeed.

    But as all of you have said there is still the human factor that can sadly cause things to fail.
     
  4. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    I think corwdfunding sites like Indiegogo and Kickstarter are starting to try and make things better. But they have a long way to go.

    I know Indiegogo trialed insurance for backers, they now also have teamed up with Arrow to certify tech projects . Prior to going live, Arrow work with teams to provide a design for manufacture analysis, and Bill of materials review etc. But even then , like with the Vega+, things can still go wrong.
    Arrow Certification program : https://www.arrow.com/en/indiegogo/get-certified

    Kickstarter just seems to rely on demanding projects have a prototype. Strangely that still doesn't seem to be a requirement for Indiegogo
     
  5. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    Until crowd funding sites start offering some kind of guarantee I'll never back anything for more than £20 to £30

    What really annoys me about these sites is that they take their cut and then wash their hands of the whole thing, I doubt this will ever change though until enough backers have been burned and revenue starts to drop.
     
  6. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Yeah it is annoying, but I doubt that will change.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  7. erico

    erico Advanced Member

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    They are donation agents, if it changes, they have no bizz.
     
  8. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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  9. pmprog

    pmprog Advanced Member

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  10. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    I saw the author of that article on twitter a few days ago. He was asking people to come forth with their refund request stories
     
  11. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    Hopefully some good will come of this whole debacle and more people will realise that backing a project is not a promise but a gamble.

    I do think the Vega+ will be delivered but not at the quality shown in the renders.
     
    levi and jeeks like this.
  12. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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  13. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    They haven't even fulfilled the original backers yet and they are still wanting more cash up front.
     
  14. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Now someone hacked RCL's sites and redirected them to sites that have been exposing RCL and the Vega + campaign.

    RCL put up an official update on the Vega+ Indiegogo page to warn people about it. One of the links goes to BUM FUN GAMING, a guy who has been making harsh videos about the Vega+ campaign. And the other site goes to the codetappers page - a blog about all the failing of the campaign and RCL to date

    This is beyond ridiculous now



    "Retro Computers Apr 30, 2017 • 11:10PM

    Security Breach

    We have been made aware that late yesterday afternoon a security breach occurred on a number of domains belonging to Retro Computers Limited. This includes the zxvega.co.uk and retro-computers.co.uk URLs

    We do not currently have control of these domains and an unauthorised third party has taken over these accounts. We we are working to recover our property from this person or persons whom we have identified and reported to Action Fraud and the Metropolitan police.

    For security reasons please only contact us through the Indiegogo portal and not via emails that contain either URL We will provide a new email address for team members in the very near future.

    Do not send any personal details via email and this information may not be secure."
     
  15. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    I don't agree with the hacking but they have done nothing to help themselves, yet again only posting when something happens that affects them, not an update in weeks.
     
  16. vcoleiro1

    vcoleiro1 Hardcore Member

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    Apparently a lot of people are saying they let the sites lapse and someone else obtained them - as opposed to the sites getting hacked. Who knows what the truth is

    Actually when you think about it, wouldn't they just call the server hosting company and get it shut down at least for the interum. This seems to have been happening for a while now - odd , maybe they did lapse and were bought by someone else
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  17. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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    Sounds about right for RCL.
     
  18. Ian J

    Ian J Advanced Member

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  19. levi

    levi Still fresh, damnit!

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    Seems plausible:
     
  20. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Can confirm (the difficulty in what happens when you let your domain expire); I forgot to renew my address once and it took 3 months before I could get it back.
     

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