Credit Card Orders

[mali]

[Mali:
QUOTE
Could you conclude what you are trying to say in one sentence, please?
I'm no native English speaker and I have a hard time understanding what this is all about.

Simply stated: "Craig's post is not an update. He said nothing new with the exception of promising actual updates on Pandora at some point soon".

I also tried to ensure people knew this was not directed at Craig himself, but to the people calling this an update... but I'm pretty sure that will be ignored when I get flamed.

Ok, now I get it, thx

 

[TaG]

Mali:
QUOTE
Could you conclude what you are trying to say in one sentence, please?
I'm no native English speaker and I have a hard time understanding what this is all about.

Simply stated: "Craig's post is not an update. He said nothing new with the exception of promising actual updates on Pandora at some point soon".

I also tried to ensure people knew this was not directed at Craig himself, but to the people calling this an update... but I'm pretty sure that will be ignored when I get flamed.
As I said though, people keep asking him to say something so he did. People wanted it from the horses mouth. They got it. (Doesn't make your point invalid, either)

I'm not saying it was a fantastic post, but I'm glad he passed by and made comment. As soon as there is real news I'm sure it'll get posted. Like all the credit card re-ordering - when they are ready they will tell us all the detail in one go. Not drip feed it onto the forum so people can bisect it, complain, make different suggestions etc (this bit is not aimed at you, so don't take it that way).

 

[gaterooze]

because I am going through with filling this company as fraudulent and am telling my bank and card company that GP32 and openpandora are thieves.

Charming. You were refunded exactly what you paid, 199GBP or whatever. They don't get to keep any exchange rate fluctuation. How exactly are they frauds and thieves?

Of course, you could just go through with your order and then you would be out nothing (maybe a few dollars in CC fees) and still get exactly what you originally paid for (well, more in fact, with the RAM and all).

 

[noisome]

because I am going through with filling this company as fraudulent and am telling my bank and card company that GP32 and openpandora are thieves.

Charming. You were refunded exactly what you paid, 199GBP or whatever. They don't get to keep any exchange rate fluctuation. How exactly are they frauds and thieves?

Of course, you could just go through with your order and then you would be out nothing (maybe a few dollars in CC fees) and still get exactly what you originally paid for (well, more in fact, with the RAM and all).


Dude, you can't talk sense into assholes. There's just no point in trying. The only people who can carry baseball bats and a .45, which I carry one of the two.

But I wish the best for the Pandora crew through this tough time. My full faith is behind you, no matter what now.

Noisome

 

[MooTheKow]

because I am going through with filling this company as fraudulent and am telling my bank and card company that GP32 and openpandora are thieves.

Charming. You were refunded exactly what you paid, 199GBP or whatever. They don't get to keep any exchange rate fluctuation. How exactly are they frauds and thieves?

Of course, you could just go through with your order and then you would be out nothing (maybe a few dollars in CC fees) and still get exactly what you originally paid for (well, more in fact, with the RAM and all).



I paid $353.50 USD (with shipping).. and was refunded $302.32 ... Are you trying to say when I re-order my purchase will not be the $330+shipping it originally was.. it will now be more in the neighborhood of $280 + shipping?

If I still have to pay $330+shipping when i replace my order this is a completely load of crap. If I don't have pay more - then I guess I don't really care.

 

[TaG]

because I am going through with filling this company as fraudulent and am telling my bank and card company that GP32 and openpandora are thieves.
Charming. You were refunded exactly what you paid, 199GBP or whatever. They don't get to keep any exchange rate fluctuation. How exactly are they frauds and thieves?

Of course, you could just go through with your order and then you would be out nothing (maybe a few dollars in CC fees) and still get exactly what you originally paid for (well, more in fact, with the RAM and all).
I paid $353.50 (with shipping).. and was refunded $302.32 ... Are you trying to say when I re-order my purchase will not be the $330+shipping.. it will now be $50 less?Yup - unless we are told otherwise or there is a significant change in currency.

That is certainly what would happen if you re-ordered now using bank transfer, BTW.

 

[gaterooze]

I paid $353.50 (with shipping).. and was refunded $302.32 ... Are you trying to say when I re-order my purchase will not be the $330+shipping.. it will now be $50 less?

Yep. You will be repaying in GBP equivalent to your original order (if you check your original receipt from ProtX/GBAX you'll see this is what you actually paid), which will be more or less the amount you got refunded.

People who have already repaid by bank transfer just sent back the exact amount they were refunded, since they did it before exchange rates changed again.

 

[carlgeorge]

Like other people I'm obviously not 'happy' that I'll have to wait maybe another 6-10 weeks to get my Christmas present (oh, and the messing about with refunds/reorders.) But, I'm not a little kid getting all excited in the run-up to Christmas anymore; where every day seems like a week. Honestly, its only a few more weeks. These guys are staking a lot of their own time and money in this project, and are not expecting to make any profit on the first batch. Cut them a little more slack. I wouldn't have had the balls to actually go ahead with a project like this myself. Would you? If you still don't have your Pandora in your hands in ten weeks, then request a refund -- this type of product isn't suited to impatient people anyway

 

[chiark]

If you're absolutely not going to accept the refund being less than you paid, charge back the original transaction and you *will* get all your money back. You *WILL* cost the retailers money and *WILL* create a headache for them.

But you will get your money back. And, crazy as it seems, I'm 99% sure you will be allowed to do so under the T&Cs of your credit card.

But you won't make any friends in the community or with the developers doing so.

This is absolutely an option if you want out completely with no financial exposure to you, but IT WILL COST THE PROJECT. Hope that's clear.

 

[mali]

QUOTE
I'm 99% sure you will be allowed to do so under the T&Cs of your credit card.

I highly doubt that this is true. The recipient of the money has certain rights, too. It would be easy to misuse the situation, if it was like you suppose. The recipient would lose money if the currency conversion would be ignored. I doubt that this is compliant to laws.

 

[gaterooze]

If the refund was not already in the account, a chargeback would 99% happen, but what happens if the refund has already been paid? The CC company will check their records and see that you paid 199GBP for something and were refunded 199GBP. Where is the fraud?

 

[Phawx]

Holy hell! The following words need to be in Bold with a 24pt font on the NEWS section and BLOG section:

"If you notice a difference in the amount refunded vs. the amount you payed, please be aware that the amount refunded to you is all that is needed to place your re-order."

 

[salasq]

If the refund was not already in the account, a chargeback would 99% happen, but what happens if the refund has already been paid? The CC company will check their records and see that you paid 199GBP for something and were refunded 199GBP. Where is the fraud?

There's no fraud, there's just teenage angst combined with a lack of math skills.

 

[CronoTrig]

It's not so much that it's fraud or a scam, nor is it that we are being refunded a smaller amount than what we paid originally; I understand the math behind that. The only problem is that forex fluctuates daily (especially at this point in time), so what we were refunded in the past week may be more or less than what we are expected to pay when the credit card re order form is online. To make matters worse, it was said that international buyers would be treated to reorders last. If the USD/CDN rises in value compared to the GBP between these two periods of time, I see no problem, but if the value of the dollar worsens, I see no reason why OpenPandora shouldn't allow us to enter a lower GBP amount in the order form, and take a small hit for the amount of the difference (much less than the $58 they are taking for each chargeback).

 

[dinglebery]

actualy here in the US thats exactly how a charge back works .. its part of what you pay Visa fees for... im sure the banks in turn pass the amount on to the the second party as a fee of some sort but yea if you have a case for a charge back you get EXACTLY what you spent in USD back minus trasaction and processing fees..

not saying that its proper or even good buisness/ethics but leagaly yes that is how it works all you have to do is prove you were not provided your goods or service in a timely manor .. in turn the second party can contest but since OP's bank is pulling crap they know they would loose and in turn would pass the "fees" on to Craigx and team as has already been stated ..

think of it this way despite what happens this said bank is still makeing money off this nothing happens at a bank that ever costs them money in turn they are makeing hassles for OP .. and im sure theres some sort of reason things cant be made to public yet so nomatter what all ties with said bank have to be broken before anything can move forward as far as the credit card issues .. how long this takes and just how adversley it affects both OP and the consumers we wont know untill the reorder pages go live ... and we find out what kind of middle ground is proposed at that time ..

i know its been stated amilion times now about only being charged what you got back.. hopeing to god that exchange rates dont spike bad for either side between the all clear, and when the CC pages go live :>

 

[mali]

actualy here in the US thats exactly how a charge back works .. its part of what you pay Visa fees for... im sure the banks in turn pass the amount on to the the second party as a fee of some sort but yea if you have a case for a charge back you get EXACTLY what you spent in USD back minus trasaction and processing fees..

I understand, that it is supposed to work like that, but the fact, that it wasn't paid in USD is the important part here that creates a completely different situation. If you pay in USD and request a chargeback, there is no conversion. But if you pay in pounds(wich you did) you convert USD in pounds and pay. In a chargeback you get that amount of pounds and it gets converted to USD which results in a lower amount according to the current exchange rate. Why should an American CC company be allowed to demand additional money from the recipient, that has never been paid?

 

[gaterooze]

if you have a case for a charge back you get EXACTLY what you spent in USD back minus trasaction and processing fees..

That's a very good point which I hand't considered. It seems a lot of credit providers also charge the cardholder a fee for initiating a chargeback? From what I can see, it can be $20-30. So maybe a chargeback is not the smartest option in this case...

Or am I wrong about that?

 

[dinglebery]

actualy here in the US thats exactly how a charge back works .. its part of what you pay Visa fees for... im sure the banks in turn pass the amount on to the the second party as a fee of some sort but yea if you have a case for a charge back you get EXACTLY what you spent in USD back minus trasaction and processing fees..

I understand, that it is supposed to work like that, but the fact, that it wasn't paid in USD is the important part here that creates a completely different situation. If you pay in USD and request a chargeback, there is no conversion. But if you pay in pounds(wich you did) you convert USD in pounds and pay. In a chargeback you get that amount of pounds and it gets converted to USD which results in a lower amount according to the current exchange rate. Why should an American CC company be allowed to demand additional money from the recipient, that has never been paid?


oh i understand the math and i agree like i said in the post i dont agree with the ethics of it but it is how it works atleast with visa protection. mabey its got something to do with the banking agrements ect ect im not a banker ive got no clue how it works on thier end i just know ive had to deal with it for importing parts for buisness reasons... its not fair ill give you that, nor is it logical but it is how Visa protection works..

but like i mentioned too, theres a shit ton of proccessing fees you get on both sides of that deal too .. not to mention your Visa fees with every purchase every year so what if they have to refund 1 order a client every ten years they have still made money hand over fist in the percentages kind of like life insurance .. :>

post ammendum

i just went quickly over the legalease on one of my statments .. mabey the way they get around it is the fact that the "parties are responsible for amounts of transaction at the date or nearest closeing buisness day of said transaction.. blah blah blah" im no great leagal guy but id guess that means they go by the rates at the time of purchase mabey.... shrug i dont know im clueless on how its handled on the bank sides

 

[gorman]

"If you notice a difference in the amount refunded vs. the amount you payed, please be aware that the amount refunded to you is all that is needed to place your re-order."

I am sorry but this is not what I read so far. So far we've had people theorizing that this is how it's gonna work out, but it's only if the exchange rate doesn't screw us over twice.
Or is there some formal statement that we will be able to pay in the currency we've been refunded the amount we've been refunded.
People didn't lose $70 or 30 Euros by chance. They lost that money through exchange rate, during the space of... a month and a half at the most. Now, how long are some of us waiting for the credit card reorder page?

 

[yosh64]

hey

Also please don't request charge backs - this only leads the bank to believe they were 'right' to do this and weakens our argument that there were wrong - they have also told us they plan to charge us $38 for every charge back they receive just to kick us while we are down due to their actions.

I think this is quite disgusting, is this the regular fee for charge backs?

I would consider contacting some sorta ombudsman about this, as it just doesn't seem fair. Especially since they pretty much forced you todo this. edit: Hopefully they see some sense and don't go any further than the planning stages.

From what I understand your options where to either have your account frozen for some undisclosed period time, or issue refunds.

Hmm, I assume during this undisclosed period of time the bank would try to determine if the funds were legit, which I think could possibly take years to resolve.

edit
Anyhows I think it's great that you are getting on with things to try and get the Pandora out there, as I think this is of the highest priority , I just hope it doesn't cause any large financial crisis for ya, hehe.

cyas