Eds Status On The Pandora Os - Disheartening


Exophase said:
Yes, there was a lot of discussion on what Pandora should be. Most of it was summarily ignored. Most of the design was decided long before the discussion even began. I know this because I've talked to craigix several times about Pandora before people even knew there was going to be one, much less what it was going to be called. And craigix had in mind a device with an 800x480 screen, clamshell, keyboard, usual gaming controls, USB, SD, etc. Originally MMSP2+ was going to be used, but it was dropped because OP realized its performance was not very good. The decision to move to an OMAP3 based handheld didn't come from community decision but because TI contacted craigix directly. And although craigix did relate this option back to the boards it wasn't to get their input on the platform but to determine if they'd be willing to buy a $300+ handheld. That's all, not a design decision.

I think the only really big contribution the boards had was the dual analog nubs, something craigix wasn't really intending at first (but warmed up quite a bit to). Some aspects were voted on by users, but more in a manner of "pick from one of these similar options" than actually coming up serious design.

This isn't the community having some well defined vision and a guy coming along and thinking it'd be nice to make someone else's dream come true. This was craigix's dream; that it happens to align well with what this community wants is just a nice coincidence. But actually, if it were designed by this community at large I have a feeling it wouldn't have had a keyboard and it wouldn't have been a clamshell.
Maybe, but Craig got the original idea in his head from the feedback etc. that the GP2X got on the forums. Some of his choices were purely down to what parts they could afford and what parts weren't copyrighted too. The finished Pandora is a mash up of all these sources.

The volume wheel was definitely asked for due to the 2X not having one.
So was a dedicated menu button.
The clam shell is common sense.
The touch screen was asked for and bought because it didn't cost much more than the normal screen and it offered more choice. Craig was never really that keen on a touch screen IIRC.
Due to it having a touch screen, it also needed a stylus and a place to put the stylus.
The battery wasn't originally going to be easily removable either, but M.Weston made it so after a lot of requests.

The forum has guided the software side of things more though IMO.
 
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VRAndy said:
shadow.8 said:
Its written in plan words on the website, under "Current Status." In fact, its the first thing listed under OS.

WiFi does work, but speed is slow due to not finished SDIO implementation yet
You can use WiFi at the moment, but the speed will be low. DJWillis is currently hacking to get proper SDIO working.

Oh come on! Read then post.

MWeston said:
The real problem is that the driver loses packets constantly which means even loading a simple page like Google can be a chore. I've loaded the GP32X page successfully but then trying to click into a topic would stall forever and I'd just give up.
That's not slow, that's non-functional.


It's not an issue, of course. Because It'll undoubtedly be fixed soon enough, and besides a wifi dongles practically come free in specially marked boxes of cereal. (Amazon has them for $8.)

But if you're going to berate the guy for complaining, at least try to be accurate about it.

I read the thread and I wasn't berating, I was simply pointing out that the website does list the wifi driver as not completely functional, and that it is actively being worked on. I can also agree that the way the website describe its functionality isn't completely correct; but at the same point its still receiving packets and it does indeed function, just not at anywhere near usable speeds.

If its a completely functioning wifi driver that is wanted, then buying a first batch unit (which has always been described as a work in progress) isn't what this person should be purchasing or expectations are too high.

Also, since this is a community project, if he wants a better function driver then shouldn't he write it himself rather than complain in a public forum. I mean, what does he expect? If I complain enough is a perfect driver going to be written faster than if I hadn't complained?

I am not upset in any way and I understand that plain text is a hard way to convey emotion accurately. If I come off as berating or unhappy then I apologize fully. :D
 
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As more and more of these kind of threads pop up, two things becomes clear to me:

1) The forum is split in two groups
Those who see the pandora project as just that: a community project. Mostly people that already was on the forum before the start of the project and owned a gp32 and/or a gp2x.

Those who see it as just another product that you buy from just another company. I guess these came here via articles at engadget and such sites. I can understand that point of view if you just looked at the openpandora website and instantly bought one without checking any further.

But to be honest I don't understand how someone can throw down ~400$ for a gadget by just looking at a site like that(no offence ED, the site is neat, but as OP is a totally unknown company. It just as easy be a scam) without checking for other opinions by reading reviews and/or forums.

2) The second group has joined the party a little to early imho.

I think this is a community project that eventually [strike]can[/strike] will evolve into a real consumer product. Its just not there yet.
Maybe OP should have waited in setting up a site for the device after the first ones had been shipped. But maybe they wouldn't have gotten close to 3000 preorders then(that was the original goal right?)
 
I think the groups already merged to a certain degree. I don't get the fuss at all, though. Someone is not _that_ happy, so be it.
 
Don't forget us linuxers here ;)
Never owned an open handheld before I preordered. Now I have a dingoo and am totally happy with it.
Pandora's firmware seems to be better then dingux, so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with it.
Sure, wifi was a BIG seller for me, but I have quite a few usb-wifi- and umts-dongles, so I can play/surf/work on my favourite chair,under my favourite tree in the garden any time :)

What hasn't been really discussed here are regressions, I bet we'll see a few in the next months. Multiboot to the rescue :D
 
Tripmonkey_uk said:
The volume wheel was definitely asked for due to the 2X not having one.

I meant to mention this, but I don't consider it a very major decision.

Tripmonkey_uk said:
So was a dedicated menu button.

Nor do I consider naming a button "menu", which is hardly a unanimous opinion anyway.

Tripmonkey_uk said:
The clam shell is common sense.

Maybe when considering everything else, but even then more people wanted a sliding or swiveling design. OP says that such a design isn't an option, but with everyone else (big company or not) doing something like this I kind of question this.

Tripmonkey_uk said:
The touch screen was asked for and bought because it didn't cost much more than the normal screen and it offered more choice. Craig was never really that keen on a touch screen IIRC.

Due to it having a touch screen, it also needed a stylus and a place to put the stylus.

No, craigix definitely wanted a touchscreen long before he mentioned anything here.

Tripmonkey_uk said:
The battery wasn't originally going to be easily removable either, but M.Weston made it so after a lot of requests.

Another very minor design decision that was easy to change later.

EvilDragon said:
Add WiFi to this list. It was a community request. :)

Not how I remember it. In fact, craigix believes so firmly in any new gaming handheld having WiFi that he thought Wiz was making a fatal mistake by not including it. It was definitely one of the features the device he envisioned (prior to announcing anything on these boards) included.
 
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conso said:
What hasn't been really discussed here are regressions, I bet we'll see a few in the next months.
Many people seem to have regressed over the last few weeks...
 
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Esslan said:
I can understand that point of view if you just looked at the openpandora website and instantly bought one without checking any further.

But to be honest I don't understand how someone can throw down ~400$ for a gadget by just looking at a site like that

You base your purchases on how the companies site looks?

I bet you think Lady GaGa is cutting edge...
 
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TaG said:
conso said:
What hasn't been really discussed here are regressions, I bet we'll see a few in the next months.
Many people seem to have regressed over the last few weeks...
UGH! WHAT AM YOU ORDER NUMBER?!
 
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I count the linuxers to the first group :)
The most important thing now is get this thing rolling so it someday can be sold to the psp kidz(just be sure not to give them the link to this forum, I just want OP to earn some money not make us suffer through their Modern Warefare 2 and Xbox360 emulator [strike]request[/strike] demand threads) and make OP rich as kings and therefore make new handhelds for us to play with.

@Unfathomable Depths: I wasn't talking about the design of the site. What I meant was by just reading through the information available there I wouldn't buy the pandora.
 
Upon reading the OS update, I felt not even a slight twinge of concern regarding what the device will be like out-of-the-box. Why? Because I own other devices that rely heavily on open documentation and enthusiast communities:

The Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 - Sharp pretty much stopped developing for this and releasing updates right after it came out. However, a rich and vibrant community of Linux hackers kept this thing useable for so many years beyond any other PDA of its time period. I'm talking about drivers for CF add-on cards, newer OS distros, absolutely lovely and streamlined UIs for everything. I even wrote a front end to the NES emulator after the old front-end died of incompatibility with later OS versions. How similar was the Zaurus OS and community stuff to what we're going to see with the Pandora? My favorite OS was OpenZaurus... all the developers from OpenZaurus stopped work on it a couple years ago and built something called Angstrom. All the community stuff was web forum driven.

The Zipit Z2 - ZipitWireless built this device as a teen-oriented SMS and IM machine with few other features. They released what they needed to GPL-wise though, and it has a 300MHz ARM chip. Now there's things like this, after hacking the Zipit gained some visible momentum / blog coverage in October. People have figured out *all* of the hardware stuff for these after-market distros, and have turned it into a neat, little, useful Linux palmtop.

The DeLorean DMC-12 - After producing only 3 model years, the DeLorean Motor Company went under. There are about five big parts vendors on-line, most of whom have invested quite a lot in development of new replacement parts or have sourced cross-reference parts. There are several huge, informative sites that document maintenance and upgrade procedures for every job on the car imaginable... often these guides contain photos, Q&A, forum threads, etc... to the point that this odd as hell vehicle from 1981 is easier to maintain than most things built in the 1990s at this point! All of the issues it had at release time were solved, sometimes repeatedly, until Internet use became common, at which point, solutions to all the release-time problems are solved, well documented, and available in multiple forms and flavors. Using easy instructions and inexpensive parts lists, I've made my door lock controller and my automatic transmission computer very stable... these were gauranteed failure parts, one of which was responsible for high battery drain.

The Pandora community will very shortly consists of 4000 owners of the device, all with a vested interest in it working beautifully... These are by definition, "early adopters," and therefore more actively into their toy purchases than average consumers. Additionally, some large percentage are going to be Linux hackers of some degree or another... I believe that, since I'm a little late on the delivery order (ordered in August 2009), I'll be benefitting from some OS improvements that are already published by other users / owners on the day I take mine out of the box!
 
x86Daddy said:
...
The DeLorean DMC-12 - After producing only 3 model years, the DeLorean Motor Company went under. There are about five big parts vendors on-line, most of whom have invested quite a lot in development of new replacement parts or have sourced cross-reference parts. There are several huge, informative sites that document maintenance and upgrade procedures for every job on the car imaginable... often these guides contain photos, Q&A, forum threads, etc... to the point that this odd as hell vehicle from 1981 is easier to maintain than most things built in the 1990s at this point! All of the issues it had at release time were solved, sometimes repeatedly, until Internet use became common, at which point, solutions to all the release-time problems are solved, well documented, and available in multiple forms and flavors. Using easy instructions and inexpensive parts lists, I've made my door lock controller and my automatic transmission computer very stable... these were gauranteed failure parts, one of which was responsible for high battery drain.
...
I hear the flux capacitors are very temperamental too...
 
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Was the inclusion of the keyboard not a community idea? i was under the impression that it was included to keep all the classic computer emulator fans happy, so they didnt have to take there hands away to touch the screen or be emulated with a dpad, maybe it was decided by the team i have no evidance to prove ether way but i did think keyboard idea came way before the idea of using the pandora as a "mini netbook" which seems to be the main use for it now?
 
WizardStan said:
TaG said:
conso said:
What hasn't been really discussed here are regressions, I bet we'll see a few in the next months.
Many people seem to have regressed over the last few weeks...
UGH! WHAT AM YOU ORDER NUMBER?!
Probably about 3984 at a guess :p
 
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EvilDragon said:
Add WiFi to this list. It was a community request. :)
So is that way it doesn't bloody work :p

p.s just teasing
 
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shadow.8 said:
I read the thread and I wasn't berating, I was simply pointing out that the website does list the wifi driver as not completely functional, and that it is actively being worked on. I can also agree that the way the website describe its functionality isn't completely correct; but at the same point its still receiving packets and it does indeed function, just not at anywhere near usable speeds.

If its a completely functioning wifi driver that is wanted, then buying a first batch unit (which has always been described as a work in progress) isn't what this person should be purchasing or expectations are too high.

The way I read it, the wifi driver itself is functional. However, the SDIO, the internal method of information delivery used by the wifi radio, is not currently working. This means that other SDIO devices would probably not work either, like if you had a SD card camera or something like that. Regardless, it is the result of the SDIO and not the wifi driver that it is not working. To me, this is a very important distinction. It means that regardless of the wifi driver, it still wouldn't work. It also means that, as stated, the wifi driver is not the thing that's broken, and should work once the SDIO issue is fixed. But most importantly, it means that there is a group of people outside the Pandora development group looking at this issue too, as there are other devices sharing this specific issue. I have no doubt that this will issue get cleared up fairly quickly after launch.
 
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lintendo said:
Was the inclusion of the keyboard not a community idea? i was under the impression that it was included to keep all the classic computer emulator fans happy, so they didnt have to take there hands away to touch the screen or be emulated with a dpad, maybe it was decided by the team i have no evidance to prove ether way but i did think keyboard idea came way before the idea of using the pandora as a "mini netbook" which seems to be the main use for it now?

The "mini laptop" (this was before the "netbook" term was even mainstream) idea was in mind before the device was announced here, so yes, keyboard was not a community decision.

emil10001 said:
The way I read it, the wifi driver itself is functional. However, the SDIO, the internal method of information delivery used by the wifi radio, is not currently working. This means that other SDIO devices would probably not work either, like if you had a SD card camera or something like that. Regardless, it is the result of the SDIO and not the wifi driver that it is not working. To me, this is a very important distinction. It means that regardless of the wifi driver, it still wouldn't work. It also means that, as stated, the wifi driver is not the thing that's broken, and should work once the SDIO issue is fixed. But most importantly, it means that there is a group of people outside the Pandora development group looking at this issue too, as there are other devices sharing this specific issue. I have no doubt that this will issue get cleared up fairly quickly after launch.

WiFi isn't slow/unreliable because it's using bad SDIO code but because it's using some other interface altogether. There hasn't been any explanation as to what this backup interface it is but clearly it's too slow to be useful. SDIO was probably working at some point and will inevitably return.
 
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