Beta Minimenu Preview Beta For You To Try!


skeezix

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It will be soon.

I'll be adding an option that when enabled, drops the strict standards checking. (And you take on the risk of lowing yourself up with a total mess of cats .. like if you make a parent category Emulator and a subat Emulator, who knows what'll happen:p)

More later, in a hurry now; probably another build early next week with custom category support.

jeff
 

naples39

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Cool.

It would solve my complaint if it still rejected atypical categories in the pnd's, but always accepted categories present in .ovr's, assuming that's feasible or even desirable.
 

DaveC

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naples39 said:
Just tried it out. Pretty cool with the ovr editor and full screen view.

The new tabs are messing me up though. For I have ovr's for all of my pnd's and use custom categories ("Linux" for Linux ports, "PC" for pc ports like doom, zelda classic, "Emulators"...) In this new version of minimenu now all of my pnds are being forced into Other and my custom categories are being ignored.

Maybe allowing custom folders could be a user setting?
That is my main gripe too is that now all of our custom tabs and subcats are ignored in favor of a strict adhearance to the freedesktop crap. The problem is not everyone uses their system how freedesktop wants us too. To me the user control taken away from us has ruined MM. It should be able to be set up how WE want not how some ambiguous standard tell us to. To me that was the point of MM was to give the user control of how they want their apps to be shown. This latest "standards" obsession is dissapointing.

For example if you want Emulator as a tab instead of a folder inside of Game (an emulator is not a "game" it is ..an emulator and you can have emulators that emulate other things than games) now you can't, it is not allowed.

If you have a card that is just Games and you want the main tabs set as "Racing, Puzzle, Platform, RPG, etc" you can't, not allowed. You would just have one "Game" tab (that would look dumb) with a big pile of icons under it, yuk.

Now I had an idea of how to solve this but for some reason it was not considered. That was that custom "non standard" overrides (ie user specified) that only work in MM could have an extension of .mmo (mini menu override)or something and the "standard" strict overrides that work with everything could stay the .ovr as now. This would avoid the "mess" that Skeezix refers to when using custom MM .ovr overrides in XFCE as now what you do in MM leaves the standard .ovr as is. In the catagory selecting panel non standard catagories could be denoted by a different color text like red or something so you know what is standard and what is custom. In MM the custom cats show up how you want them, and when switching to XFCE the .ovr is used to avoid the "mess". (BTW you could create XFCE overides in MM just by following the standard, saving, then making a custom one for how you want it in MM and MM would automatically then save as .mmo). MM would become a universal override editor.

Hopefully This functionality or similar will be added sooner than later.

I do like the full screen of icons option. The GUI for selecting cats is well done too, it just needs FLEXIBILITY for "we the people" to decide what tabs are called and what the folders are named and what app shows up in the tab and subfolder that we want.
 
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skeezix

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Yet another override file is a bad bad idea.. Too many layers competing wih each other just leading to even more user confusion and sync problems. Thats why I was thinking about making custom cats have defined stabdard cat that theyd publish outside of mmenu say.. But thats too much pain too I think now. Always a tug and pull of how far to go.. All this complexity makes 10% happy but just confuses 90% ..

Ive got somethin in the works as you know from PM so leave it at that

Also as noted you can have an emu tab just fine.. Turn off subcat-as-folder so your emu tab shows up as a tab, then turn off the game tab... Piece of cake. Its only a challnge now as it fubars your non-spec cats, but thats an experiment to see if we can fix devs, but ee cant punish users at the same time.. But we do need users to complain to lazy devs to stick to spec for their apps. I really do have an Emulatorz tab from some alpha someone sent mer.. Garg :)

Just bear in mind I'm trying to please average guy AND experts, and that is a hard challenge :) I can bet only about 5 people know what an ovr file is today so now is a good time for experimentation .. You've got ovr edits in UI and a cleaner overall category mechanism that now more or less works like xfce and other desktop environments and tries to stop people from having a tab Emu, Emulatorz, EmULATor all beside each other due to jerky devs :) now back to working on custom cats which is not nearly as easy a problem as folks think.. I've been trying to build towards a custom cat system that actually works with xfce/etc as well and avoids cyclical loops and such... Note that even the curren betas support category mapping and merging by config hacking but I'm trying to work away from that.. So next build should have basic 'create category' option or let you edit a file. (which is also a pita I might add since people are using remo able dual media here :)

Anyway no time this weekend but I'll burn a couple days begin of the week to sort it out as noted .. Then I get a day of rest :)

On my phone here so can't elaborate :) its impossible to pass my thoughts around on phone but I've been tied up 100% for a few days sorry :)

Jeffphone
 

naples39

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I have no idea if there is any relationship here, but since installing this the other day I tried snes9x and it won't load any roms anymore. From the picklelauncher menu it looks like it will load a rom, but flashes for a second then goes back to picklemenu. Might be a hotfix issue, dunno.
 

skeezix

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Would not be related to my mmenu betas

Which hotfix beta are you on? I'm on beta 3 and no prob for snes

Jeffphone
 

naples39

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I haven't tried any of the hotfixes, but I thought you said HF3 was included with your installer. Maybe I misunderstood. Didn't see why it would be a minimenu issue and if it's working for you must be something else going on.
 

skeezix

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EDs hotfixes include mmenu but my mmenu beta miniinstallers are just the mmenu executable

Its possible for a hotfix beta to break something though

Jeffphone
 

Chaser

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Just an idea to check naples39 but if you look in the appdata folder of Snes9x, is there a file named aufs.xino (you'll need 'View>Show Hidden Files' enabled)?

If so, delete it and try again. If that works then follow this thread and the ones linked http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/1270-sd-card-appdata-issue/ for a script to auto-remove those entries, as that's what causing the emu or other app to quit out. Worth a shot.

Edit : adding in the more recent thread with a fully and well tested script for this

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/1299-mystery-folders-whwhorph/
 

naples39

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I had deleted the snes9x.skeezix appdata folder several times to work with a fresh one, but the only thing that got it working again was a fresh install of the latest HF beta, and putting snes9x on virgin sd. That worked, so I copied over the snes9x.skeezix appdata folder that created. Whatever works, I guess.
 

DaveC

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skeezix said:
Yet another override file is a bad bad idea.. Too many layers competing wih each other just leading to even more user confusion and sync problems. Thats why I was thinking about making custom cats have defined stabdard cat that theyd publish outside of mmenu say.. But thats too much pain too I think now. Always a tug and pull of how far to go.. All this complexity makes 10% happy but just confuses 90% ..

Ive got somethin in the works as you know from PM so leave it at that

Just bear in mind I'm trying to please average guy AND experts, and that is a hard challenge :) I can bet only about 5 people know what an ovr file is today so now is a good time for experimentation .. You've got ovr edits in UI and a cleaner overall category mechanism that now more or less works like xfce and other desktop environments and tries to stop people from having a tab Emu, Emulatorz, EmULATor all beside each other due to jerky devs :) now back to working on custom cats which is not nearly as easy a problem as folks think.. I've been trying to build towards a custom cat system that actually works with xfce/etc as well and avoids cyclical loops and such... Note that even the curren betas support category mapping and merging by config hacking but I'm trying to work away from that.. So next build should have basic 'create category' option or let you edit a file. (which is also a pita I might add since people are using remo able dual media here :)

Anyway no time this weekend but I'll burn a couple days begin of the week to sort it out as noted .. Then I get a day of rest :)

On my phone here so can't elaborate :) its impossible to pass my thoughts around on phone but I've been tied up 100% for a few days sorry :)

Jeffphone
Making all users adhere to some draconian and severely limited freedesktop only system is a bad bad idea too. It is ok as a base to start from (have devs use it for their PNDs) but to force it on the user as the final word is not good. I am not sure how that became the "word of God" but looking through that list I see tons of things that most will never use and many things not included that WOULD be used. This is why customization needs to be added.

Editing a file wouldn't seem to be a PITA with removable media if this file was on the media itself. Users may actually want different custom tabs depending on what card is inserted. If they have a card with all games on it they may want to have custom tabs for each type of game etc. It would only be harder if this config was made through the GUI in MM as how would it know where to store the custom entries. Maybe for cats created in MM GUI (but that won't exist for some time anyway though right?) it would write those to the NAND and just become part of the list. Now should custom cats/subcats in the user's config files be permanently added to the main list of cats/subs in the NAND as they are discovered? Maybe.
 
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Chaser

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naples39 said:
I had deleted the snes9x.skeezix appdata folder several times to work with a fresh one, but the only thing that got it working again was a fresh install of the latest HF beta, and putting snes9x on virgin sd. That worked, so I copied over the snes9x.skeezix appdata folder that created. Whatever works, I guess.

Glad you found a fix. I was just chucking that out incase that rare 'bug' was the culprit but I had missed that you'd already wiped the appdata folder several times.

DaveC said:
skeezix said:
GOD of minimenu said "Let there be no rest for the wicked!"
I am not sure how that became the "word of God" but...

Neither do the people of the cloth but then they question things far less :)

I loved the additions to MM to edit ovr files from within but the last installer also seemed to get rid of the folders for game types and just bunked emulators in there too and doesn't seem the way forward, as DaveC is saying. I'd like the second to last version, with the last versions 'space' editing tools, though I don't know what I'm talking about and shall, as if never created, by thought alone, disappear from this threads existence.

Until I find a two dollar prayer book and decide its time to alter the divine plan!
 
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lambertus

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Would it be an idea to make scrolling though the categories with shoulder buttons to work like a continuous lint? Like when you're in the left-most menu and click the left-shoulderbutton it will activate the last category?
 

skeezix

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There is an option to enable wraparound of catrgories .. Ie: I like to just span left shoulder to get to leftmost tab, but others want leftmost to wrap to rightmost.. You can have either

For the record the word of god is mine since I'm doing all the work; its just handy I'm pretty reasonabke, a power user, and someone who likes enough options to covdr pretty mu h everyone.. But I also tend to defer to ED since he'll take any bad press and to DaveC since he's such a pain in the rear (and generally pretty spot on). Still I'm also the one thinking it all the way through so what I say goes :) re: another overlay file - I'm not going to explain how it'd slow down app scanning a touch due to seeking yet another file or how it leads to user confusion et. But I do mull over such things so trust in me to have considered the options :)

I've been away the last 4-5 days so not able to reply in full but should be another beta tomorrow with luck

Jeffphone
 

naples39

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Posted this in the hot fix thread too:
Can't say for certain this a new bug, but I was just playing Zelda 3t on this hotfix and quit with the pandora button. It reloaded minimenu successfully, but it kept a freeze of Zelda on top. Had to restart to get rid of it. Happened to me the other day with one of the Linux ports too, maybe monkey bubble.
 

DaveC

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Chaser said:
I loved the additions to MM to edit ovr files from within but the last installer also seemed to get rid of the folders for game types and just bunked emulators in there too and doesn't seem the way forward, as DaveC is saying. I'd like the second to last version, with the last versions 'space' editing tools, though I don't know what I'm talking about and shall, as if never created, by thought alone, disappear from this threads existence.
Was there a version that still allowed user catagories but had the GUI? I want that one.

I really don't think anyone (except Skeezix maybe) Will like their emus (or other apps now being shoved into "other") being bunked into a big pile with games either. I mean A SNES emu, An Atari 800 emu all mixed in with Gianna sisters and doom etc? No. Makes no sense. Yes you can have emus in a subfolder but now you will only have a couple of tabs but have to drill down a few levels to access stuff that you could have had as a tab before(and set to show as default if it is most used). It adds another level of messing around and makes the whole layout kind of stupid, and harder to use. And for what? Just to say "well it is a standard". Who cares. It just takes tab spam and changes it to folder spam, doesn't clean anything up, it just hides the clutter. It is still there though. Now it is worse as you CAN'T reorganize things as you want, where as before you could. Kind of defeats the purpose of MM. I guess we will see what happens hopefully sometime soon.
skeezix said:
For the record the word of god is mine since I'm doing all the work; its just handy I'm pretty reasonabke, a power user, and someone who likes enough options to covdr pretty mu h everyone.. But I also tend to defer to ED since he'll take any bad press and to DaveC since he's such a pain in the rear (and generally pretty spot on). Still I'm also the one thinking it all the way through so what I say goes :) re: another overlay file - I'm not going to explain how it'd slow down app scanning a touch due to seeking yet another file or how it leads to user confusion et. But I do mull over such things so trust in me to have considered the options :)

I've been away the last 4-5 days so not able to reply in full but should be another beta tomorrow with luck

Jeffphone
I may be a "pain in the ass" because this whole kick of taking away the user flexibility to organize their app is a TERRIBLE idea. There just needs to be a better way.

"What you say goes" is ok for you but sometimes you don't always have the best solution or GUI designs. This is why I sometimes have to be a pain and try to improve these design decisions. You are not always easily convinced though. It sometimes takes allot of coercion and use of examples.
 
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skeezix

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I'll have to update the mmenu 'manual' on the wiki ne of these days, since so much has gone in since system release.

Regarding the custom category stuff I'm still working out the details and coding (hopefully more time tnight to wrap it up, should have a beta update tomorrow sometime), but its more or less like ..

I've rather figured out that what I have meant for 'strict freedesktop enforcement' is that pnds should follow the spec; so the last couple builds have been doing enforcement at the end of the pipe (after ovr processing has modified everything), what we really want is the standards enforcement ont he _pnd_ (to ensure lazy devs defaults are sensible or shitcanned), but leave ovr's alone and _Assume_ users know what they're doing when they create overrides. (Which may not be the case .. but we can't protect everyone from everything; if someone creates a total mess with ovr's, thats really their problem and is easily cleaned up.. remove the ovr files :)

So, the code is being updated so when an ovr says something, mmenu trusts it implicitly (warts and all, try not to hang yourself); ie: trust the ovr, but dont' trust the pnds, since apparently half or most devs made bad categories in their app packaging :)

This actually separates two concepts that were rubbing up against each other with great friction; app tabs, and category creation. So now the app tabs are pulled from ovr, or if not present, from the pnd (and if the pnd's categories are bad relative to Standards, we toss the app into Other.) And mmenu has an category / subcategory override menu now so you can assign apps as you see fit to Standard categories. (Thus, to currently assign to custom category, you'd have to manually edit the ovr-file)

So tonight I'll code up some basic UI for creating custom categories (create them, delete them, list them, etc); note that this is just a UI for maintaining the tab-list that mmenu will show you when you want to assign an app to a tab. ie: When you try to re-assin the categoryof an app in the UI (and mmenu creates the ovr file for you), then you can pick from a list.. that list will be Standards + Customs, and tis new UI I'm coding will let you edit th Customs list.

Thus,
1) mmenu will trust ovr's; if you've hand rolled some already, they'll "just work" in the next mmenu beta build (like they used to, but also with support for subcat-folders new feature!)
2) You'll be able to edit the list of categoris mmenu lets you assign an app to.

This shoudl let you be flexible power users, but also coudl let you hang yourself. Such is life :)

Anyway, more detail later..

Who has time to write it up here, got code to do ;)

jeff

EDIT:

I wonder, perhaps (to avoid letting people hang themselves), I should require custom categories to not share the name of a Standard category. ie: "Game" is a standard top level category; if you go and create a custom category "Game" thats a child of something, it just makes things get weird, for instance. I can see a case them for custom cats to be called something else .. if you really wanted a "Game" tab, thn you coudl create "Games" perhaps, or "Game_" or something, perhaps. That'd make a lot othings simpler.(Or just create it by hand by hand editing an ovr.) ie: Its ugly when you create a custom category that is the wrong ancestry.. create Game as a child, or Emulator as a parent, for instance.
 

skeezix

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Latest one is now here:
http://www.codejedi....er_20110209.pnd

Huge piles of changes in here, but the main attraction should be the custom categories support.

In theory it shoudl handle your handmade ovr's pretty well if you made some before; but thats onyl a handfull of people so I've not worried over it too much.

In the Select menu there's a new option "Manage custom categories", which is basicly a UI for creating, removing and listing your custom categories. Custom categories are just extra cats listed in the "Recategorize" and "Recategorize subcategory" menus in the Spacebar 'app menu'.

It does relatively strict verification of pnd suggested categories and if the dev has made crappy non-standard or typoed categories, mmenu will shove the guy over to Other, so people can bug the devs to fix their junk :) But if you have an ovr file, whatever is in there is taken as gospel. The Recategorize menu options just set up your ovr files.

So you can now remove a subcat assignment from an app, specify a new one, specify a new main category, plus other ovr edit options .. rename the app, change its preferred cpu speed, add some notes, and some other stuff.

Lots olittle extras too -- you can delve into the Select -> Configure -> General options to turn off having apps show up in their main category if they're in the subcategory, if you like, to keep things clean looking. (ie: If an app is Game and Game->Emulator, it will show up normnally in Game and Emulator; but you can now just have it show up in Game->Emulator, not in Game, if you like.)

Please give it a good solid workout.. there is a _tonne_ of new code in these betas, and not many eyeballs testing :)

jeff

edit; you might want to reboot after running the installer, as I'm updating a core library and it might confuse a few running things. But no biggy.
 

skeezix

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I should note -- if you create custom categories and subcats, they will only really work in mmenu; xfce or other Freedesktop standard systems will stick the app into 'Other' when they encounter the non-standard stuff.

jeff
 
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