Beta Minimenu Preview Beta For You To Try!


Esn

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OK, I'm downloading to try it out now.

(by the way, another request... as well as adding the program descriptions from the pxml into the sidebar, it would also be very useful to have the DATE of the program there)
 

skeezix

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Yeah, if detail panel showing, could show lots of stuff; problem is, there too many varied pieces of info. Almost need a button which pops up a whole scrollable screen of info -- versions, categories, description, user added notes, directory, pnd-file-size, etc etc..

jeff
 

Esn

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Is there too much info to fit, really? Then maybe just include the most essential info. I think the short description of the program from the pxml is essential, and date is also important but not quite as much. I'd actually count the large image as one of the least essential things you could include there. It serves no practical purpose other than eye candy, and we already have the smaller icons anyway. I'd much rather take out the image from the detail panel than have to press a button for every program just to see some basic info.

My basic view on things is that an OS should be efficient and invisible, prettiness being very low down on the list of priorities.

I've been meaning to post some thoughts for a while, but I'll wait a few more days to really get the feel for things.

One quick note is that I don't think the keys are being used very efficiently; the ones which are used most often should be easiest to reach, even if that means assigning a function to "0", not "space", which is too far to reach quickly for the thumb.

Usage seems pretty stable and quicker than before.

Another thing. Does minimenu have to restart every time you exit a program? 5 seconds here, 5 seconds there, it adds up. Could you save some sort of state into temp memory, so that minimenu will just start back where you were before you started the program, without restarting every time? Then the only true from-0 start-up will be when you're turning on your Pandora.

Also, I really like that mock-up that DaveC posted a little while ago for how reading a documentation file should look. I hope it's possible to do this one day. Also, I have yet to come across a single documentation file that was anything more than just text. I think it would be pretty safe to just show it as plain text and not worry about html or whatnot.
 
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DaveC

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Esn said:
My basic view on things is that an OS should be efficient and invisible, prettiness being very low down on the list of priorities.

You had better hope Pleng doesn't read that :p

One quick note is that I don't think the keys are being used very efficiently; the ones which are used most often should be easiest to reach, even if that means assigning a function to "0", not "space", which is too far to reach quickly for the thumb.

Well you don't really use space that much after you set things up. You may use allot in the beginning but after things are set you will only use once in awhile. I found it pretty easy, If I didn't I would bitch (right Jeff :p ).

Another thing. Does minimenu have to restart every time you exit a program? 5 seconds here, 5 seconds there, it adds up. Could you save some sort of state into temp memory, so that minimenu will just start back where you were before you started the program, without restarting every time? Then the only true from-0 start-up will be when you're turning on your Pandora.

I has to re-load as MM flushes from RAM and doesn't run in the background after you start an app. The reason here is so that it isn't eating CPU and stealing framerates from demanding games and emus. I think it is better to wait a second or two after exiting a game then to have a choppy framerate in PSX or SNES etc.

Also, I really like that mock-up that DaveC posted a little while ago for how reading a documentation file should look. I hope it's possible to do this one day. Also, I have yet to come across a single documentation file that was anything more than just text. I think it would be pretty safe to just show it as plain text and not worry about html or whatnot.

Hopefully he will consider adding that.

Also there is a beta I tested that allows you to catagorize things how you want now without the draconian tab name limitations. I think you will like that addition.
 
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Esn

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I think you're right about the restarting thing. It's not so bad. I was put off at first because it takes a few times longer than on the GP32, but then I thought: YAFM on the GP32 only had to scan 128mb.

I just recently discovered something that made me pretty happy - by pressing a letter of the alphabet, you immediately go down to the first program that starts at that letter. This speeds browsing up a lot!

I think once a few more features are added (description + date in sidebar, documentation that loads quickly and not in another program, a "delete program" option) I'll be very happy with minimenu indeed.

One problem I discovered: if you open a program in Minimenu that uses a window larger than the Pandora resolution, you can't move the window around. In XFCE, you can hold shift and use the stylus to move the window around, but not in Minimenu. This means that I can't use Pencil in minimenu, for example (a shame, as I think it might make it a bit quicker).
 

Esn

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One quick note is that I don't think the keys are being used very efficiently; the ones which are used most often should be easiest to reach, even if that means assigning a function to "0", not "space", which is too far to reach quickly for the thumb.

Well you don't really use space that much after you set things up. You may use allot in the beginning but after things are set you will only use once in awhile. I found it pretty easy, If I didn't I would bitch (right Jeff :p ).
I'm much more likely to press Space now than Y. Why not switch the two? I press space almost half the time I get a program, to move it. Y, on the other hand, is more rarely used (especially now, with opening documentation in Arora being so slow and awkward).

At least assign it also to 0, so it's close to where my thumb normally sits.
 

skeezix

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'0' should jump to apps that begin with 0 (though there should be few, admittedly :) -- space is a pretty safe key for me to steal (and mmenu has been stealing it since day one anyway).

Theres a lot of keys I'd like to swipe, but as soon as I added 'jump to letter' long ago, I lost a lot of them ;) It used to be a touch prettier even -- jump to letter -- if the app was a few screens down, it'd jump; a screen at a time which was sort of neat to see mmenu scrolling automagically for you, but now it just jumps straight to it -- which is faster, which is all about what mmenu is for.

I will be adding a help viewer down the road, but to do it depends on a few things outside of mmenu per se, so we're gearing up for it. (ie: viewing a _text_ in the pnd is one thing, but viewing _html_ or who knows what is another, so I want to handle it properly, which needs a few things first, yet.) But it'll come.

Regarding restarts -- in current mmenu betas (not sure which you're on) theres a config item that informs mmenu _not_ to quit on running an app; this was for Plengs idea of using mmenu as a launcher in a multitasking environment (ie: with a app-list at the bottom of the display say), so he didn't want mmenu quiting all the time. So you're already covered, but its best to do that with a app-bar running or somesuch, otherwise its just sitting there inthe background eating a bit of RAM and CPU; but it'll pop up when the last app exits anyway, so it'll work fine for you, if you just want to save on start up time. Try it out and see :) (The design for mmenu was that it is very low on RAM and CPU usage -- while an app is being run, mmenu uses almost nothing (like, a few K of RAM is all, and no CPU since its not even running.) When the app exits, mmenu comes up.

mmenu can run without X11 or window managers or any of that, as well which makes this all pretty handy .. if a system is set up lean -- boot straight to mmenu without X11, it can run apps and you've got nearly your entire memory pool available to the app. Course, not having X11 up menas half your pnds will break, but such is your choice in that setup :)

jeff
 

skeezix

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Theres a number of newer builds that are not posted anywhere; HF5 is due any day now, so I didn't sweat it. But I can post a current build if anyone wants.

jeff
 

Esn

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Glad to hear that the eye-candy in alphabet-scrolling was taken out. ;)

Ok, if 0 is out, how about Del? Space is just a bit too far away for me to be comfortable, for a key I use half the time I download a new app. Or, as I said, switch Y and Space. ;) When you're pressing a button to view documentation, you're not going to be pressing any other face buttons for a while; you'll only use the d-pad to scroll through it. On the other hand, when pressing a button to bring up the "move" menu, you immediately have to use some of the other buttons to select options. So it makes sense to have that button close to the others, rather than down at the bottom of the keyboard.

I hope my request makes a bit more sense now.

I'd also like to explain why I think having the date in the detail panel is important. More than once, I've downloaded several different versions of an app or emulator. Currently, there's no way to tell which version is which. (I don't always delete the old version, because sometimes the new version breaks things).
 

Esn

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I was wondering if anyone knows why some things are not in alphabetical order. For example, the game "snowman" actually shows up almost at the very top of the "All" list. This means that I cannot jump to the letter "s" any more, because it goes to the top of the list instead...

I've also noticed this in XFCE; a lot of apps are not in alphabetical order in the menus.
 

Lobo

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Maybe because linux is case sensitive so "S" shows up before "a"?
 

sebt3

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Esn said:
If that's true... man, that is one stupid decision that the Linux guys made.
the decision come from way before linux or Unix... that a matter of encoding.
A-Z is stored as 55 to 90 while their lower case counterpart (a-z) are stored from 97 to 122.
Usually when sorting, the OS (aka even windows) will sort using the numeric value of the letters. That will give youthe order minimenu use.

But it is also possible to sort in a non-case sensitive way (like windows explorer does), you just need to ask kindly :D
 
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Esn

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Hmm... well, it just seems odd to me since everything seemed to be in alphabetical order at first, but since then more and more things have gone out of order (in XFCE especially). The strange thing about "snowman" is that it's listed twice in minimenu, once at the top of the list, and once under "s" where it should be.

If there's an easy way to fix this, it would of course be much appreciated...
 
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