New Blog Post


I'm all for waiting for a custom solution. The quality of the controls on a gaming device is very important. For analog short throw equals bad, and if you look at Mweston's video the difference is huge. The throw distance on the replacement is only 1/4th of the old one, from 2mm both ways to only 1mm.

I think it would be stupid to come this far and then sacrifice quality, just so you can have the device in your greedy hands a month or two earlier.

And to already at this point begin talking about an upgrade with better nubs is absurd. If Craigix went with that idea, many people including me, would put off buying in favor for the next version, and he absolutely don't want that to happen.
 
BackAssward said:
Well, given that they have made hardware choices without posting video's before, I get the feel that MWeston isn't too happy with the 1mm analog, and wanted to see if the community agrees. I've been told that this is primarily a portable gaming and emulation device, and in that case, you'd want as much analog control as possible (some of the arguments against, sound like they are from people less interested in gaming, more in the UMPC aspect).

Even from a UMPC standpoint, 1mm movement for mouse control means either really slow movement, or really uncontrolable acceleration when the 1mm is reached. Also, any linux ports and other mouse based action games will not be able to effectively use them.
I strongly disagree with the second paragraph. To my mind a touch screen is more than enough to control mouse. Not all UMPCs have additional controls for mouse. So from the UMPC standpoint there's a question if we need additional mouse control. IMHO the answer is no.
Secondly, you name Linux games here, which is kinda of a trick I think, coz your main idea is to separate gaming and UMPCs pros and cons (if I get it right).
So from my point of view +1mm will mean NOTHING but a delay for the UMPC crowd.
<renegades statement> if you ask me, I don't need any nubs at all</renegades statement>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I definately want to wait a couple of months for a custom nub. Make the best controls possible.
 
I would wait as well, even though my birthday happened about a week ago and I didn't get anything for it because it was reserved for the Pandora; the video really expressed the standpoint of those nubs(if you can even call them that). I would say custom Nubs + Delay == A better Birthday present here.
 
Agreed. Trust me on this one. This isn't going to appeal to the UMPC market. It's a gamers MID. Good for people who put gaming first but want MID functions.

And my UMPC has a touchscreen and is the same form factor. I still use the analog nub for web stuff, because it is easier to use in conjunction with the keyboard.
 
_VWV_ said:
<renegades statement> if you ask me, I don't need any nubs at all</renegades statement>
This exact quote kind of invalidates your point on the discusion on a gaming device (and reinforces what I said earlier). You clearly want this as a UMPC and "don't need the nubs at all". This is firstly a Game Device (I am told) and a UMPC second. It is clear what the gaming community wants.

_VWV_ said:
BackAssward said:
Well, given that they have made hardware choices without posting video's before, I get the feel that MWeston isn't too happy with the 1mm analog, and wanted to see if the community agrees. I've been told that this is primarily a portable gaming and emulation device, and in that case, you'd want as much analog control as possible (some of the arguments against, sound like they are from people less interested in gaming, more in the UMPC aspect).

Even from a UMPC standpoint, 1mm movement for mouse control means either really slow movement, or really uncontrolable acceleration when the 1mm is reached. Also, any linux ports and other mouse based action games will not be able to effectively use them.
I strongly disagree with the second paragraph. To my mind a touch screen is more than enough to control mouse. Not all UMPCs have additional controls for mouse. So from the UMPC standpoint there's a question if we need additional mouse control. IMHO the answer is no.
Secondly, you name Linux games here, which is kinda of a trick I think, coz your main idea is to separate gaming and UMPCs pros and cons (if I get it right).
So from my point of view +1mm will mean NOTHING but a delay for the UMPC crowd.
<renegades statement> if you ask me, I don't need any nubs at all</renegades statement>



Ok, I replied to this twice by accident, then deleted one of my posts, then the mods deleted the original.. what luck (I don't blame them, just a matter of bad timing on our parts).

No, touch screen is not enough to play any *action* game with mouse, you need a mouse equivalent. As this is primarily a Gaming device, non gaming concerns should take second row to the gaming ones, and 1mm analog is not enough for gaming.

To compare it to a non-gaming UMPC with touch screen support is absurd, it is not meant to replace other UMPCs and needs a mouse equivalent. The fact that it is clamshell and not tablet indicates that most gaming input is to be from the base, including mouse input. I have no idea how one would play a FPS with the touch screen their primary input, it most definitely would not work. As I've said before, and you've confirmed, the majority of the people ok with 1mm analog are the UMPC crowd, not the gamers.

(Damn, my original response was better but deleted).

BTW, I am totally wanting to use this as a UMPC also, secondary to it's original purpose. But if I have to wait a little longer to have it be a proper gaming device, as opposed to castrating it's gaming abilities (and make it have only digital inputs like a GP2X), I will wait. Even if having custom analog controllers will increase it's price marginally, what is the complaint? It's a *custom device* by nature, if you want to argue it vs. other UMPC's, you've completely missed the point. It's design is in flux (the addition of Bluetooth, the need for a new SoC with proper USB support, the need for a new analog input)... really, what part of the nature of this thing have you missed?

It should be done right, it should be a gaming device before a UMPC, it should work and fulfill it's attended purpose when they deliver it... what part of that do you not get?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kyosys said:
I don't think it's fair calling somebody a noob just because they haven't owned a device with bad controls

Why? Noob is not a derogative term! Just that you are new here. I am a noob on many other forums and in many other forms of life (an Anal noob, for example.)

But it is fair to say that the people who are saying "I want it now!" mostly were not the ones who lived through the GP2x release, and if you were you would probably want to wait for it to be perfect. Believe me, it was a disaster for the machine and those who built it. That stick they stuck on there was HORRIBLE! I and many others hated it so much that I murdered several of my neighbours.

So I think my comment is fair. Not meant at all to be offensive.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
icurafu said:
Agreed. Trust me on this one. This isn't going to appeal to the UMPC market. It's a gamers MID. Good for people who put gaming first but want MID functions.

And my UMPC has a touchscreen and is the same form factor. I still use the analog nub for web stuff, because it is easier to use in conjunction with the keyboard.
I disagree. I think the prospect of 8+hours battery life will greatly appeal to those wanting an UMPC. Including me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The main question is: Can I play Quake3 better with the old or the new Analog nub? Nobody knows but I'm sure the awnser would be the old one.
AND I like the Idea of having no delay AND good controlls. Craigix&Co. just have to kick in the asses of the Company who makes the Analog Device and do what every Company would do: force 'em to make it. ;) AFAIK this is how serious business work today. They offered a good usable Analog-Pad MONTHS ago and NOW that we need this part they can't make it? Come one, there was enough time for this. I'm sure they knew it since a longer time, that there is a problem with the old A-Pad.

I hope there will be a good solution which includes a great A-Pad AND no delay. And NO, the PSP A-Pad isn't a good solution. Afaik this crappy piece of Sony Hardware is one of the reasons, why we were so happy with the Pandora and their Analog-Controlls.

If nothing helps, maybe Texas Instruments as a big company can start to spin around and support our Team with this Hardware part? If the Pandora really is a "pet project" of TI, there shouldn't be a problem to get a perfect Analog-Pad for our Handheld. :)

So, Pandora-Team, go out and kick Ass! :D
 
declaration said:
icurafu said:
Agreed. Trust me on this one. This isn't going to appeal to the UMPC market. It's a gamers MID. Good for people who put gaming first but want MID functions.

And my UMPC has a touchscreen and is the same form factor. I still use the analog nub for web stuff, because it is easier to use in conjunction with the keyboard.
I disagree. I think the prospect of 8+hours battery life will greatly appeal to those wanting an UMPC. Including me.


I don't think anyone believes it shouldn't appeal to the UMPC crowd, but that it's first priority is gaming, and we need a real Analog Controller for that.

I also want it as a UMPC (stongly want it so) as you do, but let's not cripple it's gaming applications to get it out sooner. IMO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Crappy analogue sticks will spawn another thousand posts and polls about how much the short throw sucks and " would you have preferred a custom stick" and so on. This hand-held aims to be the best. There is nothing (arm OR x86) out there for consumers that's even close to pandora for gaming. Why rush things and compromise the reputation of the product? Custom analogues all the way I say. It would be a shame to have Craig & co. compromise their hard work to save time.

Also, no-one likes drastically different hardware revisions. Settle on a standard. Theres nothing worse than buying hardware that is "improved on" a month later because of a design flaw that shouldn't have been there in the first place. GPH have shown us all what NOT to do.

EDIT: a combination of the throw of the first analogue and the hard click of the newer option sounds good to me.
 
lubidog said:
Kyosys said:
I don't think it's fair calling somebody a noob just because they haven't owned a device with bad controls

Why? Noob is not a derogative term! Just that you are new here. I am a noob on many other forums and in many other forms of life (an Anal noob, for example.)

But it is fair to say that the people who are saying "I want it now!" mostly were not the ones who lived through the GP2x release, and if you were you would probably want to wait for it to be perfect. Believe me, it was a disaster for the machine and those who built it. That stick they stuck on there was HORRIBLE! I and many others hated it so much that I murdered several of my neighbours.

So I think my comment is fair. Not meant at all to be offensive.


Actually lubidog, no offense, but times have changed. While Newbie and newb are not seen as derogatory, noob and n00b are seen as just that most anywhere on the internet. I mean, look at the Urban Dictionary definition: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob

Now I know you didn't mean it in that way, but you just got to look at how others see it.

-God Ginrai
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Damn, I completely forgot about Quake 3! :( It's one of the biggest reasons I'm excited about Pandora. I could care less about driving games, really, but FPS does require solid and accurate controls, so I guess I'd have to vote for different controls. That being said, is everyone positive that we've exhausted all possibilities in the realm of analog nubs? There's got to be someone out there that's selling nubs with a bigger travel.

And I reiterate, if release is postponed, let's push up the preorders. That way we could appease those who want to wait for better controls by postponing, but satisfy those chomping at the bit by letting them secure their units.
 
God Ginrai said:
lubidog said:
Kyosys said:
I don't think it's fair calling somebody a noob just because they haven't owned a device with bad controls

Why? Noob is not a derogative term! Just that you are new here. I am a noob on many other forums and in many other forms of life (an Anal noob, for example.)

But it is fair to say that the people who are saying "I want it now!" mostly were not the ones who lived through the GP2x release, and if you were you would probably want to wait for it to be perfect. Believe me, it was a disaster for the machine and those who built it. That stick they stuck on there was HORRIBLE! I and many others hated it so much that I murdered several of my neighbours.

So I think my comment is fair. Not meant at all to be offensive.


Actually lubidog, no offense, but times have changed. While Newbie and newb are not seen as derogatory, noob and n00b are seen as just that most anywhere on the internet. I mean, look at the Urban Dictionary definition: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob

Now I know you didn't mean it in that way, but you just got to look at how others see it.

-God Ginrai

Blimey, it's hard being hip!!!

But point taken.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I first posted I came down in favor of waiting for something better, or just using the PSP nubs. (I don't have a lot of experience with them, but they look virtually the same as the old Pandora ones - people thinking that Pandora's nubs are going to be drastically better are probably getting their hopes up a little too high. The clamshell design may help a bit with durability though.)

However, I think that ingrin made a very good point - I've seen a awful lot of stuff like this end up as vapor thanks to delays just like this one. Really, the biggest reason that I had hopes for Pandora being different was the near term release. Anyone remember the Indrema? That was pretty kick-ass too. Would have been terrific if it had ever come out.

So let me clarify my position: I do think that it's worth waiting for a September release for better analog if that's really what it'll take. If, however, there's any danger of slipping much past that or if the supply or manufacture of the new nubs is in any way uncertain, just go with whatever you can find. A Pandora with mediocre analog is better than no Pandora at all.

Incidentally, since it's come up, I am not looking at this as a gaming device first. Not that I won't be using it for that, but it's not my priority.
 
Wait. The two games I plan to make for this console rely heavily on great gaming analog nubs, so that's important to me.

Also, if we get to have custom built ones, does it mean we could get DRIVING WHEEL-LIKE ROTATION!!??!

Oh and a delay isn't that bad folks. Gives you more time to iron other shit out. As long as you're shipping by late october we can all ask it to Santa.
 
A_SN said:
Also, if we get to have custom built ones, does it mean we could get DRIVING WHEEL-LIKE ROTATION!!??!
If that could be added, then that would be a nice feature to have. ;)

-God Ginrai
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top