Questions About Case Eta, Orders, & Emulator Progress Predictions


JerryG20

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I just have a few questions for EvilDragon, Craigix, etc.:

1. What is the ETA to get the case done and be able to show us the final prototype Pandora, fully assembled?

2. When you have this final prototype fully assembled, will EvilDragon make an HD video showing it running emulators again (the first one was very well received and served great to advertise/show to friends; if another video that showed MAME, DOSBOX, and PSX running on a fully assembled Pandora was shown, it'd be really useful to show friends)?

3. Can we get pictures of the Pandoras being produced (in the factory, assembly line, whatever it is)? I recall Craig or someone saying that they'd take pictures and stuff of the Pandoras being produced to keep us informed at all times on what's going on. What's the ETA on this?

4. A decent amount more Pandora units were made than there were pre-orders (due to them deliberately ordering more and people cancelling orders or not re-pre-ordering). Do you guys plan to "re-sell" these or put these up for pre-orders again before the second batch is released, or will all of them be used as a "just in case" to replace faulty units?

Question for users/developers:

5. What do you guys think will be the progress of the PSX & SNES emulators on release of the Pandora? I am worried that there's still a LOT of work left to be done for these two emulators considering people are expecting them to be pretty polished upon release date. For example, I am worried about PSX not running full speed with some games like Wipeout 2097 (there was also something about how the emulator still doesn't use the 3D hardware; will it be fully using it by release date? Will the emulator have filters built-in by release date?), also I am worried that the SNES emulator doesn't run all those special chip games full speed. Do you guys think that these types of things will be resolved by the time the Pandora is released? What are your guys' thoughts on these questions?

Thanks for your time.
 

gaterooze

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Just a point: ED and craigix are not responsible for emulators and cannot control how polished they are. Remember, they are being made by guys (edit: read as non-gender term) in their spare time for free and there should not be any expectations placed upon them.
 
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Glad someone asked this, I was just thinking about this today. I know they're busy and I'm used to waiting at this point, but a rough ETA would be nice. :D

And GunPei2X is right, emulators are being made by other people. You'd have to contact the people who make them directly (Zod, Notaz, etc.)
 

Bramrash

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I hope the emulators are not fully polished on release. I loved it at the start of the GP2X era when the emulators were improving every week, even every day in some cases. It'd be boring if everything was done on day 1 and then nothing much happened.
 

voidedx

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Bramrash said:
I hope the emulators are not fully polished on release.
Wow, does anyone else feel this way? I expect that new versions come out all the time because that is the nature of software. But to hope that software is bad to start so that improvements can be enjoyed incrementally is nuts.

I think you got me. I am going to believe that you were being sarcastic.
 
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Exophase

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I too am worried that all of the emulators won't have perfect 100% compatibility and every stupid feature everyone wants, on the first day the Pandora is out. I'm not really sure how I'll manage otherwise :(
 

PoisonedV

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Exophase said:
I too am worried that all of the emulators won't have perfect 100% compatibility and every stupid feature everyone wants, on the first day the Pandora is out. I'm not really sure how I'll manage otherwise :(
thank you for putting up with our shit exophase
 
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JerryG20

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Okay, I can understand not having the extra features and what not, but I think it's legitimate to be concerned about not having special chip support for SNES around the time of launch when you paid over $300 for a handheld that's been touted for having tremendous amounts of power and being capable of doing just about anything, especially if it's emulating something before the PSX era. If you look at it in a black & white situation, then yes, it looks stupid for someone to be concerned about not being able to play a video game, but don't look at it like that. Look at it like someone waited nearly a year for device that was worked & hyped up like crazy, touted as being a power-house, paid over $300 for it and when he gets it he finds he can't play games like Mario RPG at full speed (it's not like all of these special games are obscure games, a lot of them are REALLY popular; nobody expects 100% compatibility since there's so many obscure games and what not out there; that's not what I want, I just want to be able to play these popular, special chip games on the Pandora when it comes out). I just wanted to know people's thoughts on how well developed they think these emulators will be on launch.
 

skeezix

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I'm sort of hoping its the same old community we've had a few iterations of here.

ie: Day-1 I'm releasing a bunch of emus and stuff in total-crap form. Then a day or two later, a better form, morepollish; repeat for a couple weeks and things will be shaping up, but still very gp2xy.

Later, maybe all fancy GUIs and such with modern linux libs.

I worry peopel will come in, all the new folks to our community, and be expecting modern GUIS and such right up front, and not enjoy the ghetto we've all been loving for years :)

At any rate, I'm going full ghetto old school UI first, then fancy 'em up later (once we see where things are going; we really don't know at this point if peopel want framebuffer GUIs, X11 GUIs, fancy KDE ones, etc etc :)

jeff
 

Chip

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JerryG20 said:
Okay, I can understand not having the extra features and what not, but I think it's legitimate to be concerned about not having special chip support for SNES around the time of launch when you paid over $300 for a handheld that's been touted for having tremendous amounts of power and being capable of doing just about anything, especially if it's emulating something before the PSX era. If you look at it in a black & white situation, then yes, it looks stupid for someone to be concerned about not being able to play a video game, but don't look at it like that. Look at it like someone waited nearly a year for device that was worked & hyped up like crazy, touted as being a power-house, paid over $300 for it and when he gets it he finds he can't play games like Mario RPG at full speed (it's not like all of these special games are obscure games, a lot of them are REALLY popular; nobody expects 100% compatibility since there's so many obscure games and what not out there; that's not what I want, I just want to be able to play these popular, special chip games on the Pandora when it comes out). I just wanted to know people's thoughts on how well developed they think these emulators will be on launch.
Since these emulators are being written and distributed for free, I don't think you're in a position to expect much of anything. What's done in a month is done. What isn't done may or may not get added later on. The only people in a position to have any serious thoughts on the matter are the guys writing the software, and when they have something to share they usually do so. If no updates have been given, then assume there are none to be had.

Everything will probably get worked out in the end, but your attitude of entitlement is completely unwarranted.
 
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belthos

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SpaceNinjaDino said:
Bramrash said:
I hope the emulators are not fully polished on release.
Wow, does anyone else feel this way? I expect that new versions come out all the time because that is the nature of software. But to hope that software is bad to start so that improvements can be enjoyed incrementally is nuts.

I think you got me. I am going to believe that you were being sarcastic.



You missed the point. The reason someone would want to get hold of software before it is fully polished is simple.

option A| You get what is done so far and it works but not perfectly, could run smoother, could have nicer interface.... etc....

option B| you get the fully polished 100% state of the art all the bells and whistles version and nothing less. Eta= 1-2 years of part time work by the author.

You prefer option A or B?

If you prefer option B, Put your shiny new pandora in the closet without opening it.
Then check the web in 3 years and download all the shiny software B)

Belthos
 
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gruso

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JerryG20 said:
. . . I think it's legitimate to be concerned about not having special chip support for SNES around the time of launch . . .
I don't, to be honest. If a dev is porting an emulator that was well established on the GP2X, then it's reasonable to expect the same compatibility (plus a big performance boost) when the Pandora version is released. But special chip support isn't going to be easy just because Pandora has more power. In some cases (eg. Starfox) that chip support is a project in its own right - lots of work for very little payoff (ie., one game).

It'd be great to see these extras come to fruition, but it's not fair to demand them.

[edit] Totally agree with Skeezix and Bramrash - seeing things get polished along the way is part of the fun.
 
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Esn

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skeezix said:
I'm sort of hoping its the same old community we've had a few iterations of here.

ie: Day-1 I'm releasing a bunch of emus and stuff in total-crap form. Then a day or two later, a better form, morepollish; repeat for a couple weeks and things will be shaping up, but still very gp2xy.

Later, maybe all fancy GUIs and such with modern linux libs.

I worry peopel will come in, all the new folks to our community, and be expecting modern GUIS and such right up front, and not enjoy the ghetto we've all been loving for years :)

Keep on doing what you've always done and let those people whine if they want. Eventually they'll learn. :) Or just make clear that it's an "alpha/beta" to be safe.
 
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gaterooze

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Gruso said:
[edit] Totally agree with Skeezix and Bramrash - seeing things get polished along the way is part of the fun.
Absolutely. Remember nk's initial ports on the GP2X? Very crude, but it was enough to get everyone excited and give us something to play around with. Then came SquidgeSNES and eventually PocketSNES, it was a fun ride. Same with the GP32. It wouldn't have been half as enjoyable if everything was available from day 1.

Trust me fellas, whatever is available will be great fun and by the time you get bored of something, a new program or emu update or homebrew game will come out to make it exciting all over again. We really will be spoiled, I believe, if we get even one tenth of what is expected to come from the community.
 
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JerryG20

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However much you may dislike it, Chip, people naturally have expectations in their minds of the software that they will have on the Pandora. People expect something of the performance of software for the Pandora. They're expecting that PSX emulation will be full speed, or DOSBOX will be able to run more games full speed than on the GP2X. Oh the horror of expectation! It's one thing to complain about free software. It's another to expect something of free software. You can put a bad spin on it if you want, but don't use the same arguments that are used with those who complain about free software (sense of entitlement, lectures about how developers are doing this stuff for free, etc.; you don't have to remind me that developers are doing this for free in their spare time, save that for the people that'll start complaining if their free software doesn't meet their expectations).

GunPei2X said:
Gruso said:
[edit] Totally agree with Skeezix and Bramrash - seeing things get polished along the way is part of the fun.
Absolutely. Remember nk's initial ports on the GP2X? Very crude, but it was enough to get everyone excited and give us something to play around with. Then came SquidgeSNES and eventually PocketSNES, it was a fun ride. Same with the GP32. It wouldn't have been half as enjoyable if everything was available from day 1.

Trust me fellas, whatever is available will be great fun and by the time you get bored of something, a new program or emu update or homebrew game will come out to make it exciting all over again. We really will be spoiled, I believe, if we get even one tenth of what is expected to come from the community.

I agree that it's exciting watching these sorts of things (kind of like the space race), but really only (at least in my opinion) when they're somewhat close to or pushing the hardware's limits. I, and I believe many others, expect that SNES won't be much trouble for the Pandora. I think a sort of space race with PSX, N64, DOSBOX, or other things well out of the reach of the GP2X is exciting.

I look forward to space races with the Pandora. But, for example, I'm not expecting (there's that word again!), say, SNES or GENESIS or GBA space races anymore.
 
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gaterooze

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JerryG20 said:
I look forward to space races with the Pandora. But, for example, I'm not expecting (there's that word again!), say, SNES or GENESIS or GBA space races anymore.
Maybe not in those examples, but other systems you might expect to be polished on day 1 can actually become interesting journeys, for example GBC, CPC and PC Engine on GP2X.

I think the most fascinating evolution could be Amiga emulation as chipsets and features are added.
 
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sterling976

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Gruso said:
...seeing things get polished along the way is part of the fun.
+1

For those who want to maximize their fun, download the source and have a look-see, then suggest patches to the maintainer. Or in the case of specific features, code them in yourself. That same rush you get from wrangling an emulator into a working state and finally (finally!) booting into your favorite game for the first time will be doubled if you've had to work that much harder to get it. And you'll have a pretty nifty bullet point to add to your resume.

I can't speak for everyone, but many of us bought into the Pandora specifically because it's open source and we'll have to opportunity to mod either the hardware or software (or both). This open source approach inherently means that it won't really ever be 'finished' until there's no one out there putting it to new uses.

If your emulator of choice isn't quite working on day 1, contact the developer and offer to help. If you don't code and don't want to learn, offer to download the latest unstable code and test various fixes. If you see something wrong, file a bug report. This is what it means for a product to be 'community supported' -- the users have to get involved in making a better mousetrap.

</rant>
 
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PoisonedV

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If you can't handle waiting. if you can't handle seeing a program throughout its development cycle. if you cant handle doing your own bugfixing, troubleshooting, and helping others with it, too, then why would you get a pandora? your hassle is other people's delight.
 
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I'm not so psycho as to say that I look forward to bad emulators on launch, but realistically, that's what'll happen. :lol: It's a new platform, it takes time for devs to optimize their work and add features. Again, I'm not in the camp that thinks it's a "blast" to wait for broken software to be fixed, but the evolution of software is part of the style and culture of the open-source community.
 
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