6 buttons AB/CD/XY and 4 shoulder buttons?


Name them. There are much more games designed for a 6-button pad than there are that used the ABXY buttons as a dpad. I can guarantee you that.
Any game on a game system from the Playstation/Dreamcast up minus the gamecube. vs a handful of sega games..

If you notice in the picture above.
The SNES controller still has a cross shape, having one direction a tad longer doesn't change that and I'd find it acceptable.. However some of the curved configs floating around in this thread totally break this.
 
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Name them. There are much more games designed for a 6-button pad than there are that used the ABXY buttons as a dpad. I can guarantee you that.
Any game on a game system from the Playstation/Dreamcast up minus the gamecube. vs a handful of sega games..
 First of all, it's not a "handful of Sega games". It's almost all of the games on both the N64 and Saturn, a large list of MegaDrive games, as well as any 6-button arcade game.

Secondly, you said that you used the buttons as a dpad:

on many games I setup movement on those buttons like a D-pad
Most games on all of the systems Playstation/Dreamcast up do not allow you to do this.

If you notice in the picture above.
The SNES controller still has a cross shape, having one direction a tad longer doesn't change that and I'd find it acceptable.. However some of the curved configs floating around in this thread totally break this.
The SNES controller itself even highlights the fact that it is 2 rows of 2 buttons arranged diagonally if you look at the design that surrounds it the buttons.

I have specifically been against anything that was more than a slight curve because it would feel unnatural.

Also, you're saying now that you're fine w/ a cross pattern that is a tad longer in one direction? Then look no further, the design that ShleeDragon posted satisfies your requirements:

SNK-Neo-Geo-controller.jpg


It has a cross pattern with slightly longer distance between the green and blue buttons than the pink and red buttons.

-God Ginrai
 
It's almost all of the games on both the N64 and Saturn
the n64 setup would be my ideal, the C-buttons is in a cross and the A and B buttons line up with it.
Secondly, you said that you used the buttons as a dpad:
Yes as in movement keys like the upper button is forward or look up, or the bottom buttons is like backward and look down..
Most games on all of the systems Playstation/Dreamcast up do not allow you to do this.
It depends on the game.. many shooters have them setup for strafing and movement. However on the Pandora I setup movement controls like this all the time.
It has a cross pattern with slightly longer distance between the green and blue buttons than the pink and red buttons.
I have no issues with that setup. My issue was with some of the bendier setups. I just stated I would rather lose 2 buttons ie go down to 4 buttons then have something that wouldn't provide at least a rough direction pad. which some of the designs floating around were doing just that for the sake of just fitting it into the space given.
 
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I have no issues with that setup. My issue was with some of the bendier setups. I just stated I would rather lose 2 buttons ie go down to 4 buttons then have something that wouldn't provide at least a rough direction pad. which some of the designs floating around were doing just that for the sake of just fitting it into the space given.
Great! I move to make this button layout the official recommendation of this thread:

SNK-Neo-Geo-controller.jpg


As far as I could tell, most everyone was agreeable about this layout.

-God Ginrai
 
Even out the sides a bit, red up very slightly, purple down very slightly, and we got a deal.
 
Even out the sides a bit, red up very slightly, purple down very slightly, and we got a deal.
I'm not sure what you mean by "even out the sides a bit".

Moving those 2 buttons would turn the slight curve which you yourself agreed was natural into a more exaggerated curve which would not be natural.

-God Ginrai
 
Not to me; it would turn the not-quite-natural curve into a more natural curve. :p
 
I don't think we have to mess up the current 4 button setup to add two buttons at a slant like that.
 
Not to me; it would turn the not-quite-natural curve into a more natural curve. :p
 You know that by pushing those buttons where you suggest that you are making a slight curve into a more aggressive curve. You said yourself that the Sega Saturn's curve seemed natural. If you push those buttons, you change the curve on this design from one that is already ever so slightly more curved than the Sega Saturn curve to one that is much more curved, and hence, unnatural.

I don't think we have to mess up the current 4 button setup to add two buttons at a slant like that.
This isn't messing it up. It's nearly the same thing.

-God Ginrai
 
They're close enough to all the rest of the familiar places to feel comfortable, and the slight unalignment give it fleshy character.  The NeoGeo button layout looks perfect to me.
 
Another reason for the cross shape is symmetry, when the buttons are used as the Home/End/Pg Up/Pg Down buttons. Although with 6 buttons we might be able to mess with that a little (though I don't know what that would do to backwards compatibility - I vaguely rememeber the SDL keybindings have separate buttons A/B/C/D definitions and Home/End/etc definitions, although the two are defined as the same currently)
 
I have no issues with that setup. My issue was with some of the bendier setups. I just stated I would rather lose 2 buttons ie go down to 4 buttons then have something that wouldn't provide at least a rough direction pad. which some of the designs floating around were doing just that for the sake of just fitting it into the space given.
Great! I move to make this button layout the official recommendation of this thread:
SNK-Neo-Geo-controller.jpg
As far as I could tell, most everyone was agreeable about this layout.-God Ginrai
Yup that would be sweet. This configuration works for me.
 
That layout is fine, but we don't have space for it. Adding extra buttons there would make the device at least 10mm wider, and that is not acceptable to ED. We have to come up with something that doesn't need (that much) extra space.
 
That layout is fine, but we don't have space for it. Adding extra buttons there would make the device at least 10mm wider, and that is not acceptable to ED. We have to come up with something that doesn't need (that much) extra space.
When did EvilDragon say that?

Also, we have a total of ~19-20mm inbetween the nubs and the Start/Select/Pandora buttons. That can be trimmed down to reduce the amount we increase the width of the case. It might even allow us to not even have to increase the width.

And I don't see any reason why this should be objectionable to ED, seeing as how increasing the width does not effect pocketability.

-God Ginrai
 
There was some discussion about it yesterday on #openpandora:

Code:
16:42 < EvilDragon> _wb_, The only real working solution I can think of would be to the left side of X and Y two smaller buttons.
16:43 < EvilDragon> Everything else doesn't have space or will be accidentally pressed while gaming.
Code:
17:35 < _wb_> EvilDragon: is the width of the device going to stay the same?
17:36 < _wb_> lots of people would be fine with slightly wider, so that would help to fit in - = [ ] ; ' , . in their normal places, get 6
              action buttons, and some extra pcb space
17:36 < EvilDragon> _wb_, That's not slightlty, that's at least 1 cm!
17:37 < EvilDragon> And no no no no, I could not put it into my jeans pocket anymore.
17:37 < EvilDragon> That was the reason my PSP never was with me on-the-go.
 
There was some discussion about it yesterday on #openpandora:

16:42 < EvilDragon> _wb_, The only real working solution I can think of would be to the left side of X and Y two smaller buttons.
16:43 < EvilDragon> Everything else doesn't have space or will be accidentally pressed while gaming.
Code:
17:35 < _wb_> EvilDragon: is the width of the device going to stay the same?
17:36 < _wb_> lots of people would be fine with slightly wider, so that would help to fit in - = [ ] ; ' , . in their normal places, get 6
              action buttons, and some extra pcb space
17:36 < EvilDragon> _wb_, That's not slightlty, that's at least 1 cm!
17:37 < EvilDragon> And no no no no, I could not put it into my jeans pocket anymore.
17:37 < EvilDragon> That was the reason my PSP never was with me on-the-go.
Guess this means I need to start joining IRC more often. Anyways, as I pointed out, that extra space between the nubs and the Start/Select/Pandora buttons can be trimmed to allow the buttons to fit in this layout. And if we still needed to increase the size of the case, it would be by a much smaller amount.

-God Ginrai
 
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You said yourself that the Sega Saturn's curve seemed natural
I specifically said they followed an "arch", using it as an example that straight lines are not always the best. I said nothing about the naturalness of it.But if I had, I'd say that what is natural for the Saturn isn't necessarily natural for the Pyra. They're different shapes, held differently, with different stuff in different places, the natural arc is going to be different. For how I hold my Pandora, a slightly more exaggerated arc would feel more natural.
 
You said yourself that the Sega Saturn's curve seemed natural
I specifically said they followed an "arch", using it as an example that straight lines are not always the best. I said nothing about the naturalness of it.But if I had, I'd say that what is natural for the Saturn isn't necessarily natural for the Pyra. They're different shapes, held differently, with different stuff in different places, the natural arc is going to be different. For how I hold my Pandora, a slightly more exaggerated arc would feel more natural.
The design on the Neogeo controller follows the same arc you posted here:

I just tried it on my Pandora, put my thumb in a comfortable spot on the existing 4 buttons, A and Y accessible in simple rocking motion and then pivoted it until there was a spot to put another button. It landed here:


---+---+--(C)
| Y |
---+---+---+(Z)
A | | B |
---+---+---
| X |
---+---+--
The only difference is that the Neogeo controller layout is tilted slightly.

What you are suggesting now would be different than what you yourself pointed out as the curve to place the buttons along. Considering you said that you came up with this on your Pandora, I hardly see how a more exaggerated arc is all of a sudden more natural to you.

-God Ginrai
 
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