Idea to maintain community after P2


moxie

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Everybody who is shouting for "Mods": Why? As far as I can see, Esso isn't being offensive (at least not as long as one doesn't deem the very concept of a "closed club" offensive. Or a pandora with windows...oh, wait, that is offensive...But I digress) - He earnestly thinks he's identified a problem and tries to discuss a solution. And when people tell him that the ideas are daft he reacts by going "Oh, alrighty then". An unnecessary thread? Yeah, well, we're in the Pandora 2 spam forum - This whole subform is packed with silly idea upon naive pipedream upon yet another effin thread about how everybody needs to commit to a specific architecthture NOW or the world will end (at least until next week, when a new SOC is up for grabs).

This is no worse than the dual screen threads or the keyboard threads or the blimmin x86 threads.
 

MrConfusion

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What sort of stuff would custom drivers be required for? I'm not disputing this fact, just requesting knowledge.
Guesstimate based on how things would have been Way Back When:

  • -Everything not in the SOC, but I'm not exited enough about the prospect to even check what that is for the Intel part, sorry... so obvious guesses:
    NIC?
  • Display?
  • Non volatile memory?
  • Any bus or other outside communication?
[*]-Assuming you want to stay OpenSauce, many things in the SOC too
[*]-Assuming you want to still get 10 hours runtime, many things in the SOC too

But maybe the world has changed now, big corporations are begging to give both the binaries and source of their products for free and it would Just Work...

Intel will have a great reference design, parts of which might/will not be Intel manufactured and thus require co-operation with other manufactureres to get to work.

Keep in mind though, that many of the developers' attitude toward what the "Windows on P2" people are wishing for is "boring, can't be bothered, more interested in the Linux side of thing". That alone is sure to keep the Windows aspect crappy until the iron is old enough to be called legacy for most of the people now wishing for Windows support.

I am sorry when I say this, it might be my gut feeling is terribly wrong, but is there actually a single coder in the current community who would be prepared to put time into getting Windows to work?

It seems to me people who want it, might not be capable of making it happen, even if the chip was an Intel one...

(I'm also sorry to say this: I still personally find that running Windows in a P2 would benefit mostly the people who want to show their buddies they got a 3 year old shooter in their pockets, but never actually play it on the device.)

"Corporate" and "Pandora" might be two words that could find their way into the same sentence. But Pandora as a corporate use computer... come on man, we're talking about a device that's got it's roots in games consoles :). The business world could well have taken up the Sony UMPCs, did they? About the only things they really have grabbed is stuff like obscure near military grade WinCE pocket computers and even those because they got barcode scanners and highly specific programs running on them... The Pandy is a toy and a gadget and please keep it that way :).

My suggestion:

Forget about Windows compatibility for now. The subject can be brought back to focus if ED decides to go Intel. And at that time it should still be treated as "keep the gate open, but don't let it affect design decisions overly much".

SOC type decision depends on a lot of things, but Windows compatibility should be the last of those.

All in all the x86-for-against arguments based on advantages in the current Linux-based environment are far more interesting and beneficial.
 

sebt3

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Since a few days, i think it would be a good idea.
Like for every new SOC, there are new emotions around this particular sub-forum... It will settle down by itself in a few days.
If you dont like entertainment, just dont read thread here. It's not as if these threads will change drastically what's in ED's mind. Anyway now that notaz said he will not jump in P2 if x86 is used, ED cannot go to x86 : else he would loose his sole and only kernel developper. Plain simple.

So just enjoy the fuss, and get some popcorn while you're at it :)
 

moxie

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Yep. And in that way, this section really is 4chan, despite what was said a bit up - It is a place for lots of steamblowing and wild goose chasing and hot airing, of no particular consequences.
 

moxie

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Exactly. That is why this section exists - For QC in the other sections.
 

Linux-SWAT

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I fell like when my wiki pages were sabotaged, and some pple telling me "that's the way open source work".

Not only it's stupid to say that, but it's also totally false. Hyper socialization, "let's tolerate each other and be happy" is an error. I don't want the OP community sounds like brainless amateurs, especially with all the hard work done by ED.

And it's false to say that that kind of thread has no consequences. First, as i predicted, it's harming us because of negative writings between ppl supposed to go in the same direction. Second, it's a pain to know pple can read this kind of thread and make a bad opinion of us. We don't have to let garbage enter.
 

moxie

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Well...This is no more brainless than half the threads around here already. Actually, the main question (how to keep the possibility of a close-knit community in the face of a possible rise in the number of users) is a concern that is a lot more legit (and a lot more generally applicable) than all these "The P2 must have this"-threads that populate the rest of this. Perhaps the original post wasn't perfectly composed to bring the right point forward, but tbf you and Shlee and Eki immediately made it a lot worse than it could have been if you'd started out with a more reasoned "Ehm, Esso, is this really what you think, or could we clarify something"?

And the general hot-air of "Oh, this is so stuuupid" and "Why, oh why are you polluting the boards with this" and so on is what really drags this thread down. Look at the posts that have actually attempted to engage seriously, and you'll find that there has been brought forward some useful, if not earth-shatteringly original, points. Let me go through this and hide stuff that is only attacks on other people, and we'll end up with something that at least carries no shame.

So: If you don't want the OP community to sound like "Brainless amateurs" (which it doesn't. Beware, or I'll show you real brainless amateurs :D ), then attempt to raise the quality by clarifying things and drawing out useful points, instead of doing the roll-eyes-and-sigh-dramatically-routine.

The obvious way to get rid of the problem otherwise would be to put down a hard rule that noone discusses an eventual P2 at all, nowhere, until ED thinks that he has the time and the economy to entertain such ideas. I'm afraid my "hide" button would wear out, though.
 

EssoAir

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This is something that bugs me too - I don't know wether this is a reasonable concern or not, but I do wonder what would happen if the Pandora forum gets +10000 users due to the P2. Throwing in more moderators will prevent things from getting to uncivil, but that is no concern of mine (and I guess not of EssoAir too). I think that the way the things are right now, is related to the fact that the community is relativly small, with a growing community things get more unpersonal and less straightforward. But as wally already said thats how the world works, and I do not see any actions that could be taken to prevent this.
Thank you!!! I didn't know how to word it, but in my OP, it seemed so self evident to me that I didn't think I had to. Obviously, I was wrong
 

EssoAir

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@ Essoair : The idea of having hidden sections of the Forum to 'maintain community' does strike me as rather odd in the sense that it would have totally the opposite of the intended effect. However I'd just like to say keep your thoughts coming, I don't agree with a lot of what you post but 100% respect your right to post it. If I don't like a thread I find it helps to ignore it and allow others who do value it to post accordingly. To me, being part of a community like this one means that you're willing to accept (or at least politely ignore) people with radically different views / mindsets to your own.
Why thank you :)

Looking back at the beginning, if there is anything offensive about it, it is the immediate jumping upon Esso as writing "Bullshit", making the forums a "Kindergarten" that he is "Polluting". Geez, people.
Thats what I thought......
 

EssoAir

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First, as i predicted, it's harming us because of negative writings between ppl supposed to go in the same direction.
You seem to be the one bringing the most negativity to the thread. You could try just not posting?

Well...This is no more brainless than half the threads around here already. Actually, the main question (how to keep the possibility of a close-knit community in the face of a possible rise in the number of users) is a concern that is a lot more legit (and a lot more generally applicable) than all these "The P2 must have this"-threads that populate the rest of this. Perhaps the original post wasn't perfectly composed to bring the right point forward, but tbf you and Shlee and Eki immediately made it a lot worse than it could have been if you'd started out with a more reasoned "Ehm, Esso, is this really what you think, or could we clarify something"?

And the general hot-air of "Oh, this is so stuuupid" and "Why, oh why are you polluting the boards with this" and so on is what really drags this thread down. Look at the posts that have actually attempted to engage seriously, and you'll find that there has been brought forward some useful, if not earth-shatteringly original, points. Let me go through this and hide stuff that is only attacks on other people, and we'll end up with something that at least carries no shame.

So: If you don't want the OP community to sound like "Brainless amateurs" (which it doesn't. Beware, or I'll show you real brainless amateurs :D ), then attempt to raise the quality by clarifying things and drawing out useful points, instead of doing the roll-eyes-and-sigh-dramatically-routine.

The obvious way to get rid of the problem otherwise would be to put down a hard rule that noone discusses an eventual P2 at all, nowhere, until ED thinks that he has the time and the economy to entertain such ideas. I'm afraid my "hide" button would wear out, though.
You're a really nice guy!
 
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