The usual I cancel and you suck compilation


I have followed the Pandora project since the beginning. I was never sure if the small crew of dreamers who made it a reality would pull it off, and I must say my hat is off to them as they have come through and are working their butts off on a daily basis. Yeah, if Nintendo or Sony or Apple decided to build such a device then everyone who wanted one would already have one. But that's just it...those companies would never build a retrogamer's dream device. It may grow beyond it, but this project is almost at the level of a cottage industry, and the people involved with this endeavor have their hands full on a daily basis. Cut them a lot of slack, very few (if any) of us would have the drive and the know how to produce such a capable specialty device.

The games that many of us want to play are 10, 20, 30 years old. What's the big hurry? I believe the true value of this device is being able to hold a piece of history in my pocket. History isn't going anywhere. Mobile computing functions and homebrew software are tasty gravy but until more units ship we aren't going to be missing that much newly created stuff anyway.

Frankly when I see impatient rants I think that the OP must be a child, or some person that never grew up in the first place. I'm in my early 30s...the games aren't going anywhere...the pandora is a reality...it's only a matter of time until everyone that wants one will have one. I could wait months or, if necessary, years for my unit (though it's clear that waiting years is no longer going to be necessary). Further, while you wait there is nothing stopping you from running the same software you will run on your pandora, on your desktop or laptop.

Learn to enjoy life. Go outside and take a deep breath. Sip some wine. Walk your dog. Spend time with your girlfriend or other loved ones. Life is too precious to waste with feelings of anger, impatience and anxiety. I don't understand the disappointment...I would have felt a bit disappointed if the device never materialized, but instead of that I now feel *very* encouraged and inspired by what the Pandora team has achieved.
 
I was quite surprised, in that after spending some time with my Pandora I realised it was more fun as a Linux umpc. That wasn't something I expected to be honest.

In my view, the Pandora has way more potential than simply emulation. I also fear it may not realise that potential because of the low unit numbers being shifted.
 
SomeGuy99 said:
I was quite surprised, in that after spending some time with my Pandora I realised it was more fun as a Linux umpc. That wasn't something I never expected to be honest.

In my view, the Pandora has way more potential than simply emulation. I also fear it may not realise that potential because of the low unit numbers being shifted.

I agree it has great potential to "do it all." There are other mobile linux platforms from companies like Nokia, (and didn't sharp have one many many years ago?). However, none of them have the special user interface that makes the pandora both a capable mobile gaming device and umpc. It can do what some Nokia devices can do...and more. What is the "more?" Accurate, usable emulation of classic consoles and computer platforms, due to special controls and the inclusion of a keyboard.
 
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Good point.

Myself, I'm just going to camp it out until the production run is more stabilized and consistent, and in the meantime am making a game that should be easy to port to the device. Who knows, maybe when I finish I'll be able to get a Pandora by then!

I'm so 'amateur' that even the Nintendo DS and PSP Minis programs are out of my league. I lack a business address, I don't have the thousands needed for devkits (though I'm willing to splurge hundreds for a gaming machine like a PS3 :p), and the feel of my creations is so unpolished they might never pass certification. So I for one am so glad for the existence of a handheld open platform. I'll finally be able to say "Look Ma, I made a console game!"
 
mboyko said:
SomeGuy99 said:
I was quite surprised, in that after spending some time with my Pandora I realised it was more fun as a Linux umpc. That wasn't something I never expected to be honest.

In my view, the Pandora has way more potential than simply emulation. I also fear it may not realise that potential because of the low unit numbers being shifted.

I agree it has great potential to "do it all." There are other mobile linux platforms from companies like Nokia, (and didn't sharp have one many many years ago?). However, none of them have the special user interface that makes the pandora both a capable mobile gaming device and umpc. It can do what some Nokia devices can do...and more. What is the "more?" Accurate, usable emulation of classic consoles and computer platforms, due to special controls and the inclusion of a keyboard.

The N64 emulator is the only Pandora related emulator development I know of. Everything else is a quick port. Most don't even have a proper gui, unlike various other platforms (PSP, Wiz, Dingoo, GP2X, DS, Gizmondo, GBA, etc.)
 
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This style of complaining about other people complaining doesn't really feel very different than the complaint topics to me.

Insulting people who are frustrated or even upset isn't going to help anything.

Also, this doesn't apply to me since I'm obviously not in the crowd you're addressing, but if anyone ever told me to "go spend time with my girlfriend" I'd probably tell them to go jump off a fucking cliff. Just saying.
 
Exophase said:
This style of complaining about other people complaining doesn't really feel very different than the complaint topics to me.

Insulting people who are frustrated or even upset isn't going to help anything.

Also, this doesn't apply to me since I'm obviously not in the crowd you're addressing, but if anyone ever told me to "go spend time with my girlfriend" I'd probably tell them to go jump off a fucking cliff. Just saying.

Yeah actually there's quite a big difference. My complaint is justified...and the others are not. Any other small teams of individuals with similar resources who have produced somewhat similar devices in a faster timeframe may have grounds for making constructive criticism, suggestions and accusations aimed at the pandora team...but I don't think those people exist. This is a very unique project and set of circumstances, I don't think any of the whiners have standing to make a complaint against the pandora team...unless they refused to give refunds, and I believe they have given refunds to those that wanted it. So...there is really no moral ground for complaints regarding slowness of production.
 
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We are customers. The team is a company.

Customers have every right to complain at companies. Just look at how people are laying into Apple at the moment! People wouldn't dare do that to Craig or Ed.

I think this whole community love-in approach is a little flawed. Maybe we're not supposed to be too close to the creators of our gadgets... maybe that separation is healthy?

With every gain, there is loss - so nothing is ever perfect. For us, we've lost our objectivity and right to complain. Sometimes moaning is just empty noise, but sometimes it actually pushes things forwards.
 
Haha, very convincing argument there, your complaints are "justified."

The popular argument of "don't complain unless you can do better" is complete nonsense - I'm surprised I even have to refute something like this. Maybe if you go to buy a car and you get a bicycle instead, the response to your complaints should be "oh yeah, well do you know how to make a car? Or even a bicycle? I didn't think so, stfu"

I don't really see why you need a "reason" to voice frustration, nor do I really see why people like you are so hostile towards it. There's way more anti-whining than whining, and I'm with others who hold the mentality that it comes off as brown-nosing. There isn't some kind of mathematical proof that indicates that a company is "okay" to take as long as they like to deliver on preorders so long as they offer refunds, just as much as there isn't one that shows it isn't okay. So please, leave your claims of "morality" out of this - this is simply a matter of how people feel.

And you can't tell people to stop feeling bad about having to wait over and over again. In general, telling people to stop feeling a certain way shows that you don't really understand how feelings work, and are taking for granted the privilege you have in not harboring these kinds of feelings. You're also wittingly kicking people while they're down. Maybe you can tell people to stop acting on their feelings in a certain way, but to stop feeling?
 
SomeGuy99 said:
We are customers. The team is a company.

Customers have every right to complain at companies. Just look at how people are laying into Apple at the moment! People wouldn't dare do that to Craig or Ed.

I think this whole community love-in approach is a little flawed. Maybe we're not supposed to be too close to the creators of our gadgets... maybe that separation is healthy?

The pandora team is a small company composed of a handful of individuals, more is expected from Apple because they have more people and resources to begin with. That is why people should not treat Craig or Ed that same way some are ripping into apple. Also,I'm not sure that the complaints against apple are justified as they are offering a workaround case OR a full refund, which customers can then use to purchase updated hardware when it is available.
 
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Exophase said:
Haha, very convincing argument there, your complaints are "justified."

The popular argument of "don't complain unless you can do better" is complete nonsense - I'm surprised I even have to refute something like this. Maybe if you go to buy a car and you get a bicycle instead, the response to your complaints should be "oh yeah, well do you know how to make a car? Or even a bicycle? I didn't think so, stfu"

How about...don't complain, unless you have a better alternative? I can complain about GM if I can get a better Toyota, or vice versa? I can't really complain about Pandora...there's nothing else out there like it that is a better alternative. Why complain unless the complaints can improve things? The Pandora team is doing things as quickly as they can, complaints will do nothing to aid the process, nor are they justified since the team is working as hard as humans can be reasonably expected to work.
 
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How about, if complaining helps you feel better go ahead? I don't know who made you the arbiter of these things.

You say that people have no right to complain because OP is doing their best. So I suppose, if someone takes out a personal loan for $1 million dollars and fails to pay it back there should be no consequence, so long as they tried their hardest? Is this how you think the world should work? This is only an analogy, but it's actually not that far removed from the present situation. I'm not personally criticizing them (at this moment), but I'm not going to tell people that they have no right to do so.

Besides, you're a hypocrite. Or you're so arrogant that you think this thread is actually helping anything.
 
mboyko said:
SomeGuy99 said:
We are customers. The team is a company.

Customers have every right to complain at companies. Just look at how people are laying into Apple at the moment! People wouldn't dare do that to Craig or Ed.

I think this whole community love-in approach is a little flawed. Maybe we're not supposed to be too close to the creators of our gadgets... maybe that separation is healthy?

The pandora team is a small company composed of a handful of individuals, more is expected from Apple because they have more people and resources to begin with. That is why people should not treat Craig of Ed that same way some are ripping into apple. Also,I'm not sure that the complaints against apple are justified as they are offering a workaround case OR a full refund, which customers can then use to purchase updated hardware when it is available.

More losses and gains. We have a dedicated team which worked hard delivering a device which had no counterpart, and no commercial representation. But on the other hand, we have to make do with a final product that has flaws, defects, an unpolished firmware, lack of software, and severe manufacturing supply issues (which will only limit the supply of software).

It's brilliant that the creators of the machine are available to answer questions and provide technical support. On the other hand, it damages my own objectivity to know that they might lose their home if this endevour screws up.

It limits my right to complain when I know that Ed doesn't sleep at night, has nightmares, and toils endlessly on firmware updates... or that Craig might ask me my order number.

With a big commercial company, it's right that we knock them down a peg or two for alienating customers. With a small operation like this, it's right that we complain about unprofessional service. In both instances, it produces a push that balances those benefits and flaws.

The Pandora needs a rival from a bigger company: then we would see true equilibrium in action.
 
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Exophase said:
How about, if complaining helps you feel better go ahead? I don't know who made you the arbiter of these things.

You say that people have no right to complain because OP is doing their best. So I suppose, if someone takes out a personal loan for $1 million dollars and fails to pay it back there should be no consequence, so long as they tried their hardest? Is this how you think the world should work? This is only an analogy, but it's actually not that far removed from the present situation. I'm not personally criticizing them (at this moment), but I'm not going to tell people that they have no right to do so.

Besides, you're a hypocrite. Or you're so arrogant that you think this thread is actually helping anything.

Complaining may help some feel better, but at the expense of a team of individuals who are working as hard as they can and are doing nothing wrong. That is not morally acceptable. Of course the freedom of speech exists, but that doesn't mean verbally berating individuals who are working hard to provide a product or service is the right thing to do. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. This is like saying, why not run down your girlfriend or family member, if it makes you feel better? Because it's hurting someone else, that's why. This is a business for them but it's also a community effort which is what makes this project unique. Tearing down team Pandora is like tearing down ourselves, it's our money and our community effort on the line, why do we want fratricidal infighting? It helps nothing and brings everyone down.
 
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Sigh, more talk about morality, more hypocrisy... (now it's about stopping infighting.. that you're contributing to...)

You claim it's not right to "berate" people by complaining, that it's not okay to make the OP team potentially feel bad by expressing that they've made you feel bad. Your analogy of running someone over for making you feel bad is outrageous.

Somehow you reject the notion that anyone would find it unacceptable to take preorders on a device that you say will ship in a couple months that you most likely know full well won't ship in a couple months, and to not make it clear that the preorders are necessary because the money to build the things (and even design the things, to some extent) isn't fully there. Everyone is entitled to their own criteria for what they consider right and wrong, but your criteria seem to go beyond unconventional and unexpected. Should I say, they seem a little conveniently selective?
 
baby-asleep-59-2.jpg
 
The problem with a community is that it is composed of individuals. Individuals have a personality. Every personality is flawed... and one personality will clash with another. It is the exact opposite of being professional.

Sometimes things evolve for a reason.

My local newsagent closed down at the beginning of the economic crash, but my local supermarket is still going. There is a reason the supermarket rose to power. The customers caused that to happen... nobody else.

I'm lucky, in that my area is a healthy mix of small shops and supermarket chains. It's a thriving ecosystem, with genuine choice.
 
Wow, that's the biggest piece of bread I've ever seen. Or everything else in that room is too small.
 
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